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What America Should Do About Russia's Invasion of Ukraine
- simonblack 5y agoExactly what Russia did about the US invading Iraq. Complain bitterly, then acquiesce. But Libya was a country too far. When the US and NATO expanded a 'no-fly' directive to a full-on attack on Libya and Gaddafi, the Russians and the Chinese vowed never to allow them to do that again. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/mar/23/libya-ceasefire-consensus-russia-china-india https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/mar/23/libya-...
- tcbawo 5y agoSo, because of a deal worked out 80 years ago between America and USSR, the Eastern Europeans including the Ukrainian people should be blocked from determining their own destiny? All of the cited examples of "memory-holed" American provocations are well known and understood by large groups of people in the US (although not always voting majorities). I think perhaps this author is also guilty of fundamental attribution error. I don't see an answer to the question in the title other than self-reflection.
- lenkite 5y agoAustria is doing exactly this btw. A neutrality treaty signed decades ago which prevents it from joining NATO. https://www.thelocal.at/20220208/explained-the-history-behind-austrias-neutrality/ https://www.thelocal.at/20220208/explained-the-history-behin...
- ABoredBirb 5y agoNeutrality treaties are only worth something as long as your neighbours respect them. Ukraine had signed a treaty with US and Russia to give up its nukes in exchange for guarantees that their territorial integrity would be respected and defended. Putins Russia blatantly broke that treaty in 2014. So much for neutrality.
- mk22 5y agoThis is a common misunderstanding, the deal was either return Soviet nuclear weapons to Russia or get invaded by both NATO and Russia to return the nukes by force. Ukraine never had the ability to control or use them and there are no lasting international protection guarantees.
- fontenot-jon 5y ago[dead]
- mechanical_bear 5y agoIs a Ukraine a sovereign nation capable of forming alliances as they choose or not? The rest is just dissembling.
- unmole 5y agoUkraine is absolutely free to choose to join NATO. But NATO should also exercise discretion about who should be allowed to join.
- s1artibartfast 5y agoThey can choose, but that doesn't mean they get what you want. It takes two to form an alliance. The sad truth is that Ukraine would make a poor ally and NATO doesn't want to have them as full members. The only thing worse than a poor corrupt country, is one in an active war. However, the war is very useful to NATO because it consumes Russian resources.
- StanislavPetrov 5y agoI think the question of what to do when countries unilaterally invade other countries is also important to ask. The question of international law, and international standards. When the US invades other countries every few years, when Israel carries out airstrikes in Syria or the Saudis carry out airstrikes in Yemen, we don't hear the outrage of the international institutions that we see about today about Russia. What's worse is these international institutions have the gall to suggest that Russia's invasion is some sort of unique violation of the "post WW2 international order". The complete disregard that the US and NATO have shown to international law for the last 70 years have laid the groundwork for the lawless international system we have today. If we want to be able to credibly condemn Russia for launching an illegal war then we have to stop waging them ourselves and create a credible international standard that all nations are held to. The alternative is simply a lawless system where might makes right, in which case Russia's nuclear arsenal gives them the freedom to invade whoever they want (much like we do). Not only is this a bad system to live in, its an unsustainable system that eventually leads to WW3 and one that we should all strive to reform instead of pointing fingers and ignoring our own hypocrisy.
- rramadass 5y agoHenry Kissinger on the Ukraine crisis in 2014 (the advice still holds) : https://cnnbc.com/henry-kissinger-on-ukraine https://cnnbc.com/henry-kissinger-on-ukraine
- networkid 5y agoIn 1962, Kuba has been blocked from determining it's own destiny. US didn't like the Soviet missiles placed by Soviets right on their border. The peace has been saved only because USSR took a step back. Todays Ukraine is "Kuba" for Russia. The presence of NATO near its borders is threatening its security. What America should do? Maybe revenue its aggressive military presence? Think about Ukrainian people not only on its interest across the ocean.
- networkid 5y ago*review
- fit2rule 5y ago
- ZeroGravitas 5y agoTheres some interesting parallels here: Cuba was run by a corrupt dictatorship that worked with a mafia and oligarchs. When Castro wanted to overthrow them, he went to his neighbour America and asked them for help. Unfortunately, the dictator, mafia and oligarchs were seen as more useful allies by the US government than the people of Cuba, so they took their side. Cuba then had to look further for help in what many observers saw as a just cause. Possibly the USSR only got involved to annoy the US, but I'd like to hope they at least partly were motivated by some sense of justice abd it wasnt totally black and white. And on the American side, JFK, generally positively reviewed by the American people but hated by some, was elected in part due to his father's mafia ties. The same mafia that ran Cuba. (In this very stretched metaphor, Haiti could be Cechnya?)
- networkid 5y agoDictatorship / democracy is a business of the people and ONLY people who populate a territory. Nobody can use this kind of argument to justify war. Neither Russians, neither Americans, nobody!
- cafard 5y agoI'm fascinated to hear of the mafia ties. Does your research extend beyond "The Irishman"?
- fbn79 5y agoA sovereign, free and democratic country have the right to join NATO if the people desire so, and NATO too. This not imply that NATO have the right to place offensive weapon in that country if this threaten non NATO neighbors. Sad so, Ukraine has not planned to join NATO and NATO was not moving armament to Ukraine. So Putin and Russia aggression is totally unrelated to NATO and NATO is only a pretest.
- rightbyte 5y ago> NATO was not moving armament to Ukraine Where do you think all those NATO-made guided antitank weapons and antiair missiles came from?
- pjc50 5y ago"The solution to Russia’s war in Ukraine seems equally obvious" and yet it's unstated, because to state it baldly would appal people.
- oyebenny 5y agoEast and West Ukraine?