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> Apps Remain Running (and Focused) After Being Closed If you’re complaining about this, you don’t understand Mac OS. Mac is a multi-window system. Unlike Win

> Apps Remain Running (and Focused) After Being Closed If you’re complaining about this, you don’t understand Mac OS. Mac is a multi-window system. Unlike Windows or Linux or BSD, a program can have multiple windows open at once, each window potentially doing vastly different things. That is why that red dot doesn’t actually close the program. It only closes the current window, leaving all other windows - and the program itself - still up and running. For a multi-window paradigm, this is logical, rational, and expected.

SalimoS 5y ago
and this exemple show either the writer don’t understand how macOS really work or he just trying to force the Windows way unsuccessfully
- wtallis 5y ago
  Really, most of the content in the article is horribly contrived complaints. The "Informational Redundancy" screenshot shows at least two UI elements that are hidden by default. The complaint about how quitting the Finder makes desktop icons disappear misleadingly neglects to mention whatever hacks he had to use to get the Quit action to show up in the menu in the first place, because it's not available by default for precisely this reason. This guy is putting real effort into misrepresenting the stuff he's complaining about.
howinteresting 5y ago
Programs can have many windows open on other OSes too, all doing different things. They can also stay running after the last window has been closed. The question is what the default behavior of applications is, and macOS is just plain inferior to other OSes in that regard.
- hnaccy 5y ago
  >and macOS is just plain inferior to other OSes in that regard. this just seems like a matter of taste
- retrac 5y ago
  Trying to exit one of those windowless programs on Windows at least, can be rather hidden functionality, and may involve resorting to the task manager. On mac OS, by default it's in the dock if it's open, it's cycled through with command-tab, and once you bring it to the front, you have the menu bar as a uniform interface for interacting with windowless apps. I don't even use mac OS but on this aspect it does seem more consistent.
  - runjake 5y ago
    Menu Item apps (analogous to Windows task bar apps) usually aren’t in the Dock when they are running. You normally don’t quit then via the menu bar (File Edit). Nor are launchagent processes. So I’m not sure how you are trying to contrast macOS here.
themadturk 5y ago
This was the first thing I learned when I started using a Mac in 2007. I took some years off and ran Windows from 2012 to 2021 and never forgot this aspect of Mac. I don't know, maybe I'm not enough of a power user (I use my MacBook Air primarily as a laptop, rarely hook it up to an external monitor or use a separate keyboard or mouse), but I just don't encounter of these "problems," or I've gotten used to them.
wlesieutre 5y ago
I have a coworker on Windows who leaves an instance of Word open with a blank document at all times because it will lock up for a minute or two while launching the first instance. One you have the first window open, new windows with additional documents open much faster. It’s like he’s reinvented the Mac application/window paradigm, except worse because his placeholder window is always present in the alt-tab switcher.
MonaroVXR 5y ago
I was thinking about a single window system. Since managing Windows is bad in MacOS, people use spectacle or rectangle
sam_goody 5y ago
I respectfully disagree. The Apple docs suggest to app developers that when closing the last window, the app should be made to close automatically. This is almost certainly what the user wants, unless you have a reason to think otherwise. For example, as per my other comment, if I have restore tabs in my browser, I expect the tabs of the last open window to always be restored. Instead of this being a suggestion, it should be the default, and the developer should have to configure when they want the last window to NOT close the app. (Even Apple's Safari suffers from this!) Also, Win has a dock for "background" apps which are always open, accessible, but not in the toolbar of open apps. Apple has a menubar, that similarly allows docking of those apps that are open without a window. My rule of thumb - if you don't think the app belongs in the menu, you want it to close when the last window closes. And if Apple had a "minimize to menu" that might be useful.
- bitigchi 5y ago
  Where is it written? And if so, why do the most Apple applications that use multi-window setup do not behave as such, like Safari, TextEdit, Xcode, and many others? It only makes sense to close the application immediately when the red button is pressed if the application is designed for a single window, or if it's not a document based app. Like the Calculator.app. Keeping the application running when all windows are closed has huge performance benefits, allows opening another window much faster, and arguably one of the best aspects of macOS.
- SllX 5y ago
  This is entirely contrary to how the Macintosh has worked for decades which has also shaped user expectations, and closing the app entirely creates a performance penalty for document-oriented apps. Whenever Apple has experimented with doing it a little different, such as when they added sudden app termination to Lion, it has generally degraded the user experience by running contrary to expectations. I also second everything in bitigchi’s reply to you.

SalimoS 5y ago

and this exemple show either the writer don’t understand how macOS really work or he just trying to force the Windows way unsuccessfully

wtallis 5y ago
Really, most of the content in the article is horribly contrived complaints. The "Informational Redundancy" screenshot shows at least two UI elements that are hidden by default. The complaint about how quitting the Finder makes desktop icons disappear misleadingly neglects to mention whatever hacks he had to use to get the Quit action to show up in the menu in the first place, because it's not available by default for precisely this reason. This guy is putting real effort into misrepresenting the stuff he's complaining about.

howinteresting 5y ago

Programs can have many windows open on other OSes too, all doing different things. They can also stay running after the last window has been closed. The question is what the default behavior of applications is, and macOS is just plain inferior to other OSes in that regard.

hnaccy 5y ago
>and macOS is just plain inferior to other OSes in that regard. this just seems like a matter of taste
retrac 5y ago
Trying to exit one of those windowless programs on Windows at least, can be rather hidden functionality, and may involve resorting to the task manager. On mac OS, by default it's in the dock if it's open, it's cycled through with command-tab, and once you bring it to the front, you have the menu bar as a uniform interface for interacting with windowless apps. I don't even use mac OS but on this aspect it does seem more consistent.
- runjake 5y ago
  Menu Item apps (analogous to Windows task bar apps) usually aren’t in the Dock when they are running. You normally don’t quit then via the menu bar (File Edit). Nor are launchagent processes. So I’m not sure how you are trying to contrast macOS here.

themadturk 5y ago

This was the first thing I learned when I started using a Mac in 2007. I took some years off and ran Windows from 2012 to 2021 and never forgot this aspect of Mac. I don't know, maybe I'm not enough of a power user (I use my MacBook Air primarily as a laptop, rarely hook it up to an external monitor or use a separate keyboard or mouse), but I just don't encounter of these "problems," or I've gotten used to them.

wlesieutre 5y ago

I have a coworker on Windows who leaves an instance of Word open with a blank document at all times because it will lock up for a minute or two while launching the first instance. One you have the first window open, new windows with additional documents open much faster. It’s like he’s reinvented the Mac application/window paradigm, except worse because his placeholder window is always present in the alt-tab switcher.

MonaroVXR 5y ago

I was thinking about a single window system. Since managing Windows is bad in MacOS, people use spectacle or rectangle

sam_goody 5y ago

I respectfully disagree. The Apple docs suggest to app developers that when closing the last window, the app should be made to close automatically. This is almost certainly what the user wants, unless you have a reason to think otherwise. For example, as per my other comment, if I have restore tabs in my browser, I expect the tabs of the last open window to always be restored. Instead of this being a suggestion, it should be the default, and the developer should have to configure when they want the last window to NOT close the app. (Even Apple's Safari suffers from this!) Also, Win has a dock for "background" apps which are always open, accessible, but not in the toolbar of open apps. Apple has a menubar, that similarly allows docking of those apps that are open without a window. My rule of thumb - if you don't think the app belongs in the menu, you want it to close when the last window closes. And if Apple had a "minimize to menu" that might be useful.

bitigchi 5y ago
Where is it written? And if so, why do the most Apple applications that use multi-window setup do not behave as such, like Safari, TextEdit, Xcode, and many others? It only makes sense to close the application immediately when the red button is pressed if the application is designed for a single window, or if it's not a document based app. Like the Calculator.app. Keeping the application running when all windows are closed has huge performance benefits, allows opening another window much faster, and arguably one of the best aspects of macOS.
SllX 5y ago
This is entirely contrary to how the Macintosh has worked for decades which has also shaped user expectations, and closing the app entirely creates a performance penalty for document-oriented apps. Whenever Apple has experimented with doing it a little different, such as when they added sudden app termination to Lion, it has generally degraded the user experience by running contrary to expectations. I also second everything in bitigchi’s reply to you.