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> video games and social media are in the same class as drugs and alcohol. Disagreed - one key aspect of the latter is physical dependance where withdraws are

> video games and social media are in the same class as drugs and alcohol. Disagreed - one key aspect of the latter is physical dependance where withdraws are potentially life threatening. It's similar sledge hammer approach to putting weed on class 1 or treating all wrong doings as 'sin'. They are not the same things, should not be thought as the same nor treated the same.

snek_case 5y ago
The concept of physical vs psychological dependence is kind of outdated, see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EaiP31qWf0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EaiP31qWf0 I don't see anything wrong with talking about a video game or social media addiction. Of course it's nowhere near the same level of danger as a heroin addiction, but if it's counter-productive and there's the same kinds of behaviors involved, it can be a useful model. Just the same, you can be addicted to coffee. Caffeine is a drug. It's not expensive, and it's not known for tearing families apart, but it builds a tolerance, it produces a withdrawal, and people will change their behavior to get access to more coffee, may become aggressive when they can't get access to it, etc. If you think that you waste too much time on social media, then just like with drug addiction, there's a question of first realizing/accepting that this is even a problem at all. Then, once you've realized that there's a problem, you might want to think about coping strategies, replacing social media with other activities, developing healthier habits, etc. And just like with a drug addiction, you might find quitting cold turkey difficult.
- irjustin 5y ago
  > physical vs psychological dependence is kind of outdated I wouldn't say outdated, but I do agree it is 100% up for debate. Kurzgesagt did a really similar video[0] on addiction, but the basically walked it back from such a hard line stance in a correction/update video[1]. It's not so easy to tease apart the social vs the physical vs the pure mental. > Just the same, you can be addicted to coffee. Caffeine is a drug. Right, I think you're agreeing with me. That they have similar aspects, but to treat them the same - like putting caffine on Class 1 - would be insane. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdJAQZxJ6vY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdJAQZxJ6vY [1] https://youtu.be/JtUAAXe_0VI?t=224 https://youtu.be/JtUAAXe_0VI?t=224
  - snek_case 5y ago
    I'm assuming you mean schedule 1. Nobody is suggesting that coffee should be placed in that category. I don't think there's a problem in society with people equating coffee or videogames with highly addictive drugs. It's more the opposite. People don't realize that addiction is something that could happen to them, or that they have an addiction to something. Alcoholics and drug addicts often live in denial, even when it has really damaging consequences in their life. So, if someone is addicted to something that's not widely considered addictive, it's even easier to deny that this is even a problem. When the idea of an addiction to porn or videogames is brought up in an online discussion thread, people are quick to dismiss that this even is a real problem. Consider though that gambling addiction is very much real, and a lot of gambling takes places with machines that are effectively simple videogames. Addiction to video games isn't as devastating, because you're not losing huge sums of money, just time, but presumably, the addictive mechanism is more or less the same.
- Calavar 5y ago
  > The concept of physical vs psychological dependence is kind of outdated, see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EaiP31qWf0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EaiP31qWf0 You are conflating two terms here. Addiction (which is what the video is talking about here) is a set of behavioral patterns. I agree that the line between psychological and physiological in addiction is blurry. But addiction is not the same as dependence, which is about tolerance and withdrawal and is purely a physical phenomenon. To give some examples, when a person misses work because they are drunk or when they spend their rent money on heroin, that is addiction. When a person has seizures because they haven't had a drink in two days, that's dependence. I agree with GP, video games may be addictive but there is no physical dependence like there is with alcohol or, as you pointed out, even caffeine.
  - stevage 5y ago
    What about the way that people who scroll a lot lose their attention span, can't sit still without stimulation etc? Maybe dependence isn't exactly the same thing, but there is some kind of physical change happening in the brain, no?
thfuran 5y ago
>one key aspect of the latter is physical dependance where withdraws are potentially life threatening. No, it isn't. Only a pretty small fraction of drugs that can have physical symptoms of withdrawal have potentially life threatening withdrawal.
weq 5y ago
Are you kidding me? Have you not seen people die from selfies? Anyone can become addicted to anything and suffer the same consequences peddled by religion for "drugs". There is no argument against this, humans can programme themselves just as opiates, pathways are pathways. My ex-wife was a Doctor with PTSD from being raped (she was raped by a doctor who was drunk, then raped by a physcologist who treated her, got her pregnant, then forced her to give up her kid) (med school, what a cesspool!) She was addicted to gaming AND social media. They were the only way she could stop thinking about her PTSD which haunted her everyday. She is a functioning Senior ER doctor. She had all the same symptoms as my mate who was raped by an uncle when he was a child and consequently took up drugs in adolencence. he gave up drugs. She hasnt given up gaming, or scoail media, and she is only a trigger away from killing someone on the ER table due to it. FYI i found out we were getting a divorce because she unfriended me from FB. Are u kidding me? What an ADDICT! Threatened to kill herself unless i had a baby with her. That was my last straw. She couldnt do a sh*t in the morning without scrolling. Somehow FB status was more real to her then life. Least she have a moment to recollect her trauma.
- irjustin 5y ago
  That's absolutely terrible for everyone involved and sorry to hear what's happening to you. Finding out a divorce via FB unfriend is pretty nuts.
me_me_mu_mu 5y ago
I mean things can be addictive. I used to smoke hella weed and was dependent on it to function. Basically I was addicted to wake and bake and just be high all day. I was still “functional” to others but to myself I was miserable and a husk. I was going to the dispensary every couple days and spending forty bucks. I’m not saying weed is bad, but like anything else moderation and control are required. Now I just smoke on very special occasions like my bday or getting a promotion/raise. But let’s be real while accepting that some people (like me) can get addicted to some things. I never got hooked on nicotine or alcohol. Nor on video games. But I’m sure some people do get sucked in and feel like crap.
esperent 5y ago
Very few drugs have life threatening withdrawal symptoms. Alcohol does but you have to abuse it to an extreme degree to reach that level. Most people with issues around alcohol are a huge distance away from getting dangerous withdrawal symptoms.

snek_case 5y ago

The concept of physical vs psychological dependence is kind of outdated, see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EaiP31qWf0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EaiP31qWf0 I don't see anything wrong with talking about a video game or social media addiction. Of course it's nowhere near the same level of danger as a heroin addiction, but if it's counter-productive and there's the same kinds of behaviors involved, it can be a useful model. Just the same, you can be addicted to coffee. Caffeine is a drug. It's not expensive, and it's not known for tearing families apart, but it builds a tolerance, it produces a withdrawal, and people will change their behavior to get access to more coffee, may become aggressive when they can't get access to it, etc. If you think that you waste too much time on social media, then just like with drug addiction, there's a question of first realizing/accepting that this is even a problem at all. Then, once you've realized that there's a problem, you might want to think about coping strategies, replacing social media with other activities, developing healthier habits, etc. And just like with a drug addiction, you might find quitting cold turkey difficult.

irjustin 5y ago
> physical vs psychological dependence is kind of outdated I wouldn't say outdated, but I do agree it is 100% up for debate. Kurzgesagt did a really similar video[0] on addiction, but the basically walked it back from such a hard line stance in a correction/update video[1]. It's not so easy to tease apart the social vs the physical vs the pure mental. > Just the same, you can be addicted to coffee. Caffeine is a drug. Right, I think you're agreeing with me. That they have similar aspects, but to treat them the same - like putting caffine on Class 1 - would be insane. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdJAQZxJ6vY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdJAQZxJ6vY [1] https://youtu.be/JtUAAXe_0VI?t=224 https://youtu.be/JtUAAXe_0VI?t=224
- snek_case 5y ago
  I'm assuming you mean schedule 1. Nobody is suggesting that coffee should be placed in that category. I don't think there's a problem in society with people equating coffee or videogames with highly addictive drugs. It's more the opposite. People don't realize that addiction is something that could happen to them, or that they have an addiction to something. Alcoholics and drug addicts often live in denial, even when it has really damaging consequences in their life. So, if someone is addicted to something that's not widely considered addictive, it's even easier to deny that this is even a problem. When the idea of an addiction to porn or videogames is brought up in an online discussion thread, people are quick to dismiss that this even is a real problem. Consider though that gambling addiction is very much real, and a lot of gambling takes places with machines that are effectively simple videogames. Addiction to video games isn't as devastating, because you're not losing huge sums of money, just time, but presumably, the addictive mechanism is more or less the same.
Calavar 5y ago
> The concept of physical vs psychological dependence is kind of outdated, see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EaiP31qWf0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EaiP31qWf0 You are conflating two terms here. Addiction (which is what the video is talking about here) is a set of behavioral patterns. I agree that the line between psychological and physiological in addiction is blurry. But addiction is not the same as dependence, which is about tolerance and withdrawal and is purely a physical phenomenon. To give some examples, when a person misses work because they are drunk or when they spend their rent money on heroin, that is addiction. When a person has seizures because they haven't had a drink in two days, that's dependence. I agree with GP, video games may be addictive but there is no physical dependence like there is with alcohol or, as you pointed out, even caffeine.
- stevage 5y ago
  What about the way that people who scroll a lot lose their attention span, can't sit still without stimulation etc? Maybe dependence isn't exactly the same thing, but there is some kind of physical change happening in the brain, no?

thfuran 5y ago

>one key aspect of the latter is physical dependance where withdraws are potentially life threatening. No, it isn't. Only a pretty small fraction of drugs that can have physical symptoms of withdrawal have potentially life threatening withdrawal.

weq 5y ago

Are you kidding me? Have you not seen people die from selfies? Anyone can become addicted to anything and suffer the same consequences peddled by religion for "drugs". There is no argument against this, humans can programme themselves just as opiates, pathways are pathways. My ex-wife was a Doctor with PTSD from being raped (she was raped by a doctor who was drunk, then raped by a physcologist who treated her, got her pregnant, then forced her to give up her kid) (med school, what a cesspool!) She was addicted to gaming AND social media. They were the only way she could stop thinking about her PTSD which haunted her everyday. She is a functioning Senior ER doctor. She had all the same symptoms as my mate who was raped by an uncle when he was a child and consequently took up drugs in adolencence. he gave up drugs. She hasnt given up gaming, or scoail media, and she is only a trigger away from killing someone on the ER table due to it. FYI i found out we were getting a divorce because she unfriended me from FB. Are u kidding me? What an ADDICT! Threatened to kill herself unless i had a baby with her. That was my last straw. She couldnt do a sh*t in the morning without scrolling. Somehow FB status was more real to her then life. Least she have a moment to recollect her trauma.

irjustin 5y ago
That's absolutely terrible for everyone involved and sorry to hear what's happening to you. Finding out a divorce via FB unfriend is pretty nuts.

me_me_mu_mu 5y ago

I mean things can be addictive. I used to smoke hella weed and was dependent on it to function. Basically I was addicted to wake and bake and just be high all day. I was still “functional” to others but to myself I was miserable and a husk. I was going to the dispensary every couple days and spending forty bucks. I’m not saying weed is bad, but like anything else moderation and control are required. Now I just smoke on very special occasions like my bday or getting a promotion/raise. But let’s be real while accepting that some people (like me) can get addicted to some things. I never got hooked on nicotine or alcohol. Nor on video games. But I’m sure some people do get sucked in and feel like crap.

esperent 5y ago

Very few drugs have life threatening withdrawal symptoms. Alcohol does but you have to abuse it to an extreme degree to reach that level. Most people with issues around alcohol are a huge distance away from getting dangerous withdrawal symptoms.