4 ms·

I am glad to see this. I hope that the right lessons about this crisis (in my view at least) are drawn by the population of Europe. Thank god Europe is a set o

by sgt101 5y ago

I am glad to see this. I hope that the right lessons about this crisis (in my view at least) are drawn by the population of Europe. Thank god Europe is a set of democratic states, and the view of the populous is essential. If Russia gets bogged down and then has a compromise forced on it I fear that the leftist agenda will be to claim that all is well and the current level of unpreparedness is acceptable. I am already hearing this from the "dinner party crew". God knows there are other priorities for spending, refugees, post-covid health, green transitions. But make no mistake, win or lose the Russians will be back. A conventional war, with the USA kept out by nuclear fear must be a dead cert loss for Russia. If it isn't they will try it.

ChemSpider 5y ago
The real/bigger thread in the future will be a hyper-nationalistic China. I can only hope we apply the lessons learned to China as well.
- rasz 5y ago
  China is already preparing. https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1500537455921053701 https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1500537455921053701 "China is now launching the enormous warmongering campaign. In 2021 they produced the most expensive Chinese movie ever, The Battle at Lake Changjin, on the battle of Korean War against the US" "If you watch recent Chinese movies like the Wolf Warrior, you'll see that China is preparing its public opinion for the war with the US. China may not say it to the US but they're absolutely saying this to their citizens. You can't fool yourself about it"
  - throw7 5y ago
    absolutely. c.f. top gun et al.
- snek_case 5y ago
  I wonder how long China and Russia will remain allied. There's similarities between the two since they're both authoritarian countries, practically dictatorships. But China is very racially uniform and xenophobic, believes Han Chinese people to be superior. Ultimately, they must believe themselves superior to Russians as well.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Play both ends against the middle. Have the US and the EU duke it out with Russia, then run off with the spoils. It would make good sense from their perspective and it might just happen.
  - jansen555 5y ago
    Superiority complex is a westerner thing (eg. Semite, aryan, American white). Chinese historically has no notion of racial superiority like Nazi Germany or even Imperial Japanese. They don't even consider blood purity like Japanese. Their cultural norms is to preserve what they own. Like HK, Macao, Tibet and Taiwan. They will take decades or centuries to get it back because that is what they own even if it is millenia ago. The closest this idea would be Israel...but unlike them Chinese dont view it as God-given. It is more like it is because it is as nature dictate. China and Russia wont be allies for long because of difference in races. But as long it serves their immediate purpose they will do so. Read up how Jin fall to Mongol because the sourthern Song want to appease the Mongol. In the end they fall too. The northern also killed their best general because that can buy appeasement with Mongols. Chinese historically is like that all in tactically but very short-sighted when it comes to long-term strategy.
smel 5y ago
[flagged]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
throwawaymanbot 5y ago
jacquesm 5y ago
" I fear that the leftist agenda " It might pay off to see Europe through a European lens and not through an American one. Quite a few countries have had unbroken rightwing governments through decades of disarmament because we were ignoring the crazy bear living next door. And some of the countries that had 'left' leaning governments have pretty good armies.
jansen555 5y ago
Russia gets bogged down is simply a fictional hope here. You should read up how Russia mowed down Hitler. How Russia destroyed Grozny beyond recognition and garnered the survivors's immense loyalty (brainwashed). As long as no countries helping Ukraine militarily, Ukraine losses is inevitable. The only question is just when and how many dead. USA cannot help without risking destruction of Taiwan (1/3 USA navy is on the other side of the planet) and Israel (Iran going nukish). If you observe Putin, unlike American, he hasn't send in the war his best, while Ukrainian has been bleeding their best on the frontline (very similar to Hitler's crack troops against Russian worst back then). As more and more civilians get boxed in and then cut off from outside, Ukrainian military will get weaker and weaker to feed their civilians. In ancient Chinese warfare it was routinely their rule of engagement to exterminate any additional mouth that won't contribute to winning the war. As for Putin, he has a lot of old Soviet stocks that need to dispose of. This war is a perfect excuse to replenish his arms once this is over. So overall, we as worldwide citizen should get Ukrainian to surrender because 1. Less people die 2. Less damages to Ukraine to preserve their cultural identity 3. Ukrainian diaspora spread worldwide will one day have influence and clout to come back to rebuild Ukraine. Putin cannot live long just like Stalin. But alas, everybody just gotten too emotionally gratifying to cheer and help Zelenskyy to piedpiperred his people to doom like the Battle of Hattin.
- sidibe 5y ago
  You are delusional, very clearly Russia has not succeeded as expected. It's not some master strategy going on here, Putin thought it would be over by now according to lots of evidence, from misprint in Russian news agency, presence of riot gear in many of the destroyed convoys. Maybe Russia can grind out a "win" but they definitely didn't intend to have lots of equipment and personnel losses to soften up the Ukrainians like you're saying
  - jansen555 5y ago
    Go watch the map. See the big picture in Russia military strategy. Setback is common in war. If Putin complete his objectives in 2 years, it still beats Americans in Iraq and Afghan 20 years. Even better than Korean and Vietnam war. Even better than Libyan and Syrian wars. In absolute terms Russian lost way more than Hitler. In fact a Tiger easily destroyed 20+ Russian tanks towards the end of the WW2. You are thinking like George Bush Jr of "mission accomplished" photo ops 20 years ago. Russian simply dont fight short war. They fight effective war of attrition. They dont have rule of engagement like USA. They mowed you down when you are down. Kiev is now about to get boxed in with the last bridge about to be blown up. All the destroyed Russian equipments are old stocks. Their Ratnik elite soldiers havnt even make appearance. You are talking emotionally. I am talking logically even if it is extremely unpopular and get downvoted heavily.

by sgt101 5y ago

ChemSpider 5y ago

The real/bigger thread in the future will be a hyper-nationalistic China. I can only hope we apply the lessons learned to China as well.

rasz 5y ago
China is already preparing. https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1500537455921053701 https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1500537455921053701 "China is now launching the enormous warmongering campaign. In 2021 they produced the most expensive Chinese movie ever, The Battle at Lake Changjin, on the battle of Korean War against the US" "If you watch recent Chinese movies like the Wolf Warrior, you'll see that China is preparing its public opinion for the war with the US. China may not say it to the US but they're absolutely saying this to their citizens. You can't fool yourself about it"
- throw7 5y ago
  absolutely. c.f. top gun et al.
snek_case 5y ago
I wonder how long China and Russia will remain allied. There's similarities between the two since they're both authoritarian countries, practically dictatorships. But China is very racially uniform and xenophobic, believes Han Chinese people to be superior. Ultimately, they must believe themselves superior to Russians as well.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Play both ends against the middle. Have the US and the EU duke it out with Russia, then run off with the spoils. It would make good sense from their perspective and it might just happen.
- jansen555 5y ago
  Superiority complex is a westerner thing (eg. Semite, aryan, American white). Chinese historically has no notion of racial superiority like Nazi Germany or even Imperial Japanese. They don't even consider blood purity like Japanese. Their cultural norms is to preserve what they own. Like HK, Macao, Tibet and Taiwan. They will take decades or centuries to get it back because that is what they own even if it is millenia ago. The closest this idea would be Israel...but unlike them Chinese dont view it as God-given. It is more like it is because it is as nature dictate. China and Russia wont be allies for long because of difference in races. But as long it serves their immediate purpose they will do so. Read up how Jin fall to Mongol because the sourthern Song want to appease the Mongol. In the end they fall too. The northern also killed their best general because that can buy appeasement with Mongols. Chinese historically is like that all in tactically but very short-sighted when it comes to long-term strategy.

smel 5y ago

[flagged]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

throwawaymanbot 5y ago

jacquesm 5y ago

" I fear that the leftist agenda " It might pay off to see Europe through a European lens and not through an American one. Quite a few countries have had unbroken rightwing governments through decades of disarmament because we were ignoring the crazy bear living next door. And some of the countries that had 'left' leaning governments have pretty good armies.

jansen555 5y ago

Russia gets bogged down is simply a fictional hope here. You should read up how Russia mowed down Hitler. How Russia destroyed Grozny beyond recognition and garnered the survivors's immense loyalty (brainwashed). As long as no countries helping Ukraine militarily, Ukraine losses is inevitable. The only question is just when and how many dead. USA cannot help without risking destruction of Taiwan (1/3 USA navy is on the other side of the planet) and Israel (Iran going nukish). If you observe Putin, unlike American, he hasn't send in the war his best, while Ukrainian has been bleeding their best on the frontline (very similar to Hitler's crack troops against Russian worst back then). As more and more civilians get boxed in and then cut off from outside, Ukrainian military will get weaker and weaker to feed their civilians. In ancient Chinese warfare it was routinely their rule of engagement to exterminate any additional mouth that won't contribute to winning the war. As for Putin, he has a lot of old Soviet stocks that need to dispose of. This war is a perfect excuse to replenish his arms once this is over. So overall, we as worldwide citizen should get Ukrainian to surrender because 1. Less people die 2. Less damages to Ukraine to preserve their cultural identity 3. Ukrainian diaspora spread worldwide will one day have influence and clout to come back to rebuild Ukraine. Putin cannot live long just like Stalin. But alas, everybody just gotten too emotionally gratifying to cheer and help Zelenskyy to piedpiperred his people to doom like the Battle of Hattin.

sidibe 5y ago
You are delusional, very clearly Russia has not succeeded as expected. It's not some master strategy going on here, Putin thought it would be over by now according to lots of evidence, from misprint in Russian news agency, presence of riot gear in many of the destroyed convoys. Maybe Russia can grind out a "win" but they definitely didn't intend to have lots of equipment and personnel losses to soften up the Ukrainians like you're saying
- jansen555 5y ago
  Go watch the map. See the big picture in Russia military strategy. Setback is common in war. If Putin complete his objectives in 2 years, it still beats Americans in Iraq and Afghan 20 years. Even better than Korean and Vietnam war. Even better than Libyan and Syrian wars. In absolute terms Russian lost way more than Hitler. In fact a Tiger easily destroyed 20+ Russian tanks towards the end of the WW2. You are thinking like George Bush Jr of "mission accomplished" photo ops 20 years ago. Russian simply dont fight short war. They fight effective war of attrition. They dont have rule of engagement like USA. They mowed you down when you are down. Kiev is now about to get boxed in with the last bridge about to be blown up. All the destroyed Russian equipments are old stocks. Their Ratnik elite soldiers havnt even make appearance. You are talking emotionally. I am talking logically even if it is extremely unpopular and get downvoted heavily.