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Open Letter to Visa and Mastercard from IT Specialists Fleeing Russia

83 points by smugglerFlynn 5y ago

Alex here speaking from the Russian IT community (40k+ people). Please read our message. Switching off Visa and Mastercard transactions abroad will lock thousands of IT specialists within the regime. These people are now trying to flee the country. We wrote about the situation here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30552091 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30552091 Over the past two days we had 300+ resumes submitted[0], connecting these people with more than 30 organizations from Europe, US, Canada, India, Turkey, UAE and other countries to help them urgently relocate. Many of those looking for reloc are Ukrainian people by nationality who happen to live in Russia. Lot of these people rely on scarce savings which they still have on their bank cards, as many were fired from their jobs over the past week. Getting cash is practically impossible right now, even in Moscow. These people won’t be able to purchase tickets to get out. Those who already flew away won’t be able to finance themselves, as many still rely on Russian sources of income and try to work remotely while looking for another job. Me and other community admins practically beg you, from all of our IT communities, to reconsider the decision, or give us more time. Signed, oleg@hey.com (admin of 36k members IT community) the.noble.activity@gmail.com (admin of 1k member IT community) @zzzybkin (admin of 7k member IT community) sasha.milenkin@yandex.ru (admin of 1.3k member IT community) crimes@hey.com (admin of 3k member IT community) 0 - all resumes to date are published here https://t.me/joinchat/AAAAAE3nUawZ4YX6AtDCFg https://t.me/joinchat/AAAAAE3nUawZ4YX6AtDCFg You can help by posting in the comments type of help, or relaying above information and our contacts to your local recruiters and hiring managers.

mishapoiuytrewq 5y ago
The closure of transfers is now not only affecting IT, but also free media :(
mkoreshkov 5y ago
I was looking for a job when Putin started this inhuman war. Now it's even more difficult to find a job, even in the open world, and in conditions of urgent relocation (without relocation from the company) I can only count on casual earnings with payment to my Russian cards. Please, let's find a way out!
anton_shilin_d 5y ago
scary to stay in Russia.. it’s terrible.. if u disagree with government - be welcome to be beaten by police or/and proceed to jail..
evgenna 5y ago
I have a ticket in Turkey, but I don't know how I will pay for life
smugglerFlynn 5y ago
This reflects fully how most of us feel right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il65k-wEP4s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il65k-wEP4s
userNotFound403 5y ago
I fully support
baguwk 5y ago
I'm totally agree. We're in a same situation right now.
vmt-man 5y ago
We are locked in a financial trap or cage, isolated from the rest of the world. IT sector has the most open-minded and kind people. Fully support!
sdoering 5y ago
Victims on all sides. 'In war people who don't know each other kill each other on orders of people who know each other but don't kill each other.' I can't quote my SO enough with this saying. While I am also still trying to understand why this war makes sense to Putin and Russian leadership in their heads.
tatargarien 5y ago
i agree. cutting russia from visa and mc systems actually helps the russian government by making it easier to retain IT talent to build internal systems and close off the country with over 150m people from outside world, which is easy to control
shipaleks 5y ago
Hi everyone. I understand the idea of blocking Visa/MasterCard in Russia for destroying economy and hurting Putin, and I kinda agree with it. The only problem — this sanction will also lock a lot of IT-people inside Russia, which is provide another chance for Russian economy (due to this people have upper median salary in Russia and they have massive influence on local market). Also this sanction will slow down the "brain leaking" from Russia, which is also can influence on stability of Putin regime.
eldarovich99 5y ago
I tried to pay with Mir Pay and it is just doesn't work. I live in Armenia and I don't know how to pay for anything. I don't know how to live without Visa or Mastercard
y-alice 5y ago
It seems to be true
peevasique 5y ago
Absolutely agree. IT specialists living in Russia are in awful situation. Blocking visa/mastercard actually damages civilians more than Putin's regime
- sdoering 5y ago
  If I look at it cynically from a strategic position this is probably why it is done. Hit the civilians so that they go to the streets against Putin. That's probably the idea. I just know of no case where this had worked (but I might just miss all the successful examples in history). Sadly it is the normal people who suffer most.
  - baguwk 5y ago
    Problem is that for just saying something like "no to war" at the street you can be inprisoned for years in Russia. Goverment have so much brute forces like police and OMON so they can handle anything.
    - okl 5y ago
      I saw videos of Ukrainian civilians stopping your country's tanks with their bare hands.
      - kantrael 5y ago
        Now go check out the video of a 10 years olds getting arrested for holding a sign with “No war” on it. https://youtu.be/YlVkGERhHkg https://youtu.be/YlVkGERhHkg
        okl 5y ago
        I'd rather protest together with the kids and get jailed, beaten and tortured than to run like a coward and let the fascists take over.
        5y ago
localocaman 5y ago
We don’t deserve this harassment just because we living in Russia
- nixlim 5y ago
  Oh, but you do. If collective responsibility was not a concept you were aware of before, you will certainly learn it now, just like the Germans did after WWII
  - localocaman 5y ago
    yes, I understand what collective responsibility is, as well as collective irresponsibility. in Russia, 90% of the population are below the poverty line and, due to their ignorance, are subject to propaganda from federal channels, which have been under the control of the state for many years. the remaining 10% of people go to rallies, defend (trying to) their position, try to convey their thoughts to the rest. but the policy of "fear", promoted by our government, quickly extinguishes all these people. we take to the streets and risk losing our jobs (and someone loses). now there are even fewer of us, because the government spends the budget not on the welfare of the people, but on its control and intimidation. why these 10% of people should be responsible for our government? for the remaining 90% of people? we were always against it, but they shut our mouths, put us in jail and ruined our lives. we are used to this from our authorities, but we are not used to this from the rest of the world.
    - sidibe 5y ago
      This completely sucks and I'm sorry for you. One if the goals of these sanctions and other actions is probably to snap the other 90% out of their trance. If all the daily things they take for granted don't work maybe they will ask why. Will it work or backfire? Who know but meanwhile Ukrainians is rightfully demanding as much pressure as possible. I am sorry for everyone in this mess, but the faster Putin is forced to stop in Ukraine the sooner it can return to normalcy.
      - 5y ago
dennis_tsvetkov 5y ago
I'm gonna leave Russia day after tomorrow, heading in Turkey and I just don't know how I supposed to pay for anything there with all my blocked cards:(
- tatargarien 5y ago
  you're lucky you managed to get a ticket. try to get as much cash as possible..
- okl 5y ago
  - kantrael 5y ago
    We don’t kill people in Kharkiv. Putin does.
    - nixlim 5y ago
      Of course, a single man walking around and killing people. Superman. Please, how stupid do you think everyone is?
      - dang 5y ago
        We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. You can't attack others like this here, no matter how in the right you are or feel you are. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
  - cyrill-s 5y ago
    But how can I help my aunt and friends in Kiev and other citizens of Ukraine if I can't use my funds at all
  - dang 5y ago
swagdydeji 5y ago
I agree Situation gets worse and worse every day, more and more people wanna leave their country. Leave them some ways to do that
IAmNotImpressed 5y ago
I am a software engineer in Russia. My future wife is studying in France. We are both against what Russian government and army are doing. I have less than 3000$ of savings and no ability to work remotely from other countries because I can't get my wage outside of Russia now. I can not leave without severe financial and logistical issues to even meet her again and I don't really have many places to go to. She can not return here, nor should she because it is dangerous, and she can not withdraw cash from her Russian bank accounts where most of her money is to support herself in France. These sanctions, including VISA and MasterCard block, endangered and condemned thousands if not tens and hundreds of thousands of people who have nothing to do with Putin's decision to invade Ukraine. Hell, it endangered 145 millions of people in Russia. Because these sanctions don't hurt Putin or his oligarch supporters but they hurt regular people, who are now facing simply the danger of default.
okl 5y ago
Sorry to break it to you, but regardless of your letters MasterCard and Visa won't return in the near future.
cyrill-s 5y ago
It's true. It scares me. I urgently left Russia with almost no cash; this morning, after reading the news from Mastercard, I miraculously managed to withdraw about 3k, but I don't know how to adjust my life in the future yet To get a job, I need more documents than I managed to take with me, so for now the only source of income remains in Russia, but how to use it is a huge problem (not to mention the exchange rate due to which my salary decreases every day)
- winnie_ua 5y ago
  You are IT guy, You'll get a job just fine, don't worry. If you are qualified, at least.
mtmail 5y ago
Gathering 15 comments within 15 minutes is very rare on Hackernews. 12 of the 15 comments are from accounts created today. Have people from the mentioned IT communities been asked to come to this page and to create accounts?
- kantrael 5y ago
  I think there were a link to this post posted in one of the community channels, and some people that didn’t have an account just decided to create one to show their support
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- smugglerFlynn 5y ago
  @dang and other mods We have asked people in our telegram channels and communities to share their experience in the comments. I know this breaks the rules. I hope at war time this would be acceptable, given the cause. Posting all this is a huge risk for us. All these stories which people post here are real. We are not Putin to bullshit people with lies or manipulate people to vote for things they don’t believe in — much less than 1% of people in Russia know that hacker news exists. We gain $0 from this activity. I fact, me and a couple of close friends worked 24/7 over the last two days to help as many people as we can to connect with 30+ recruiters and hiring managers.
  - gus_massa 5y ago
    One of the problems is that it's very difficult to explain to people that does not use HN what is a good comment in HN. In particular, many of the comments are to short, and that doubles the negative effect on the community. I suggest that the new users that still can edit their comments to write a longer and more personal version. If they can not edit, just self-reply to their own comment and add three or four paragraphs. (Front end or back end? Emacs or Vi? Preferred language? City??? Age range???) I understand that some may not like to share too many personal details, so I added a few question marks. But if the idea is to show that there are real persons suffering on both side, some personal stories are better than "It seems to be true". I also understand that many may not write English too well, I'm a native Spanish speaker and I make a lot of orthographical and gramatical mistakes here. Also, avoid cut and pasting the same "personal" story many times, it will cause an even worse effect. The idea is not foolproof: * It is possible that dang does not like this longer versions neither and still decide to ban all the new accounts. * It is possible that someone will acuse you of being a gpt-3 bot, and adding orthographical errors on purpose, or even nastier things. * I don't expect the community to be super happy with the green account after the expanded comments, just less unhappy.
supamorgen 5y ago
fully support the blockage of these cards. Coming here and whining cause your comfortable life is ruined? Tell this to families in Irpin, which got bombed when evacuating. You have a chance to protest and shout your position yet you choose to turn your face from the problem and leave all alone with it`s problems. So why someone should sympathise you again?
- kantrael 5y ago
  No, we don’t have a chance to protest. It’s simply not how it works here. People in Europe have a chance to protest, people in USA have a chance to protest, but not the people in Russia. We don’t. When you protest in Russia you just get jailed the very same day and that’s it.
  - okl 5y ago
    - kantrael 5y ago
      It’s easy to say such things when you was lucky to born in a country that respects your right to protest and other civilian rights. But would you go to a protest if that guaranteed to get you in jail for half a month at best? Would you speak up publicly for yourself if that meant you get jailed for years? Especially if you have wife and kids? I don’t think so. And if you say yes, I would think it’s a lie, or that you’re stupid.
      - okl 5y ago
        Yes I would and you're a coward. Also poisoning the well with your "if you say yes, I would think it's a lie, or that you're stupid" I hope writing that does at least help you feel better because it won't help the people of Ukraine.
        slatmother 5y ago
        Oh, c'mon. It's always easy to speak from the sofa - yes, I would, you are a coward and bla-bla-bla. You are not living in this shitty contry and you are judging from the western way of thinking. Remember, it's always a number one priority to save your and your family lives and then care about others.
mpozdeevf 5y ago
I have the same problem. People who support Putin don't have problems like this, because they will not leave Russia. MasterCard and Visa just created problems for people who against Putin's politic.
kantrael 5y ago
It truly scares me how an entire nation of developers just became cut off of the IT community as well as the rest of the world just because they happen to born at the same place as one crazy dictator.
- smugglerFlynn 5y ago
  What scares me more is that we seem to have this dictatorship thing going for hundred of years already :-/
curly_luaP 5y ago
If this people have such problems, then they can go and protest against this banning, instead of asking to cancel such things.
- kantrael 5y ago
  And after that they just end up in jail and won’t be able to post anything anywhere anymore.
- IAmNotImpressed 5y ago
antoremin 5y ago
This issue affects thousands of anti-war/anti-Putin folks who fled Russia.
klupo222 5y ago
"These sanctions, including VISA and MasterCard block, endangered and condemned thousands if not tens and hundreds of thousands of people who have nothing to do with Putin's decision to invade Ukraine. Hell, it endangered 145 millions of people in Russia. Because these sanctions don't hurt Putin or his oligarch supporters but they hurt regular people, who are now facing simply the danger of default." It is with the support of our citizens that the government invades other countries, so all citizens within the country are responsible. Unite against the Putin regime, we need go to the streets. Unfortunately, the collapse of the country is inevitable and only a change of government can change that. Sanctions will only increase until the withdrawal of our oil and gas.
- prisioner 5y ago
narandar 5y ago
Look, there's a lot of people like me, who just want to move out to some normal country, get a job and be good citizens. But we must move fast, because there's a chance that iron curtain closes any time and we're trapped here for ages. Cutting off the transactions leaves us one option: to get a new job and a working visa in a few days. But it never happens in a few days. Please give us time to move and keep our current jobs for some time. Many of us have people who rely upon us: parents, friends, charities and funds. We need our bank cards working to be able to help them. I cannot just donate to my local homeless shelter from a foreign card because — surprise — it will make the shelter a "foreign agent" effectively closing it. And I'll need to send money to my mom because — surprise again — her pension from the government is just about $110/month (11600₽ IIRC). How can I relocate and not abandon people that I care about? With this thing going on, I've got no idea.
- mrdigital20 5y ago
  as you read this full blown disconnect form the Internet is being signed off — check other threads here on hn
- crate_barre 5y ago
  I’m going to suggest something a little wild. Russia has way too much border to protect. What happens if you take a car, and head to another country. I don’t know what the fuck to say, the west have to change policy: 10,218 people from Russia have fled in 2020 and applied for asylum in other countries. This corresponds to approximately 0.007% of all residents. The most destination countries hereof have been the United States, France and Germany. Overall, 83 percent of the asylum applications have been rejected. The most successful have been the refugees in Portugal and in Mexico. If the Russian people are under a police state, why aren’t we granting these people political asylum, no questions asked?
cbg0 5y ago
Have Visa and MC already been shut off completely? Visa said it's working on shutting them off in the coming days, you should at least try to use your card to purchase a plane ticket out ASAP.
- smugglerFlynn 5y ago
  I will describe my personal case. I still receive money from company based in Russia. This block was announced on the first day of three-day public holidays in Russia, when banks do not process corporate transactions. Even if on Wednesday morning my company will arrange an advance payment, it won’t get to me in time to withdraw cash via ATM (Visa ban will become active on Wednesday night, and Mastercard has already stopped working for many people earlier today) I don’t know if that was planned, or was just an unlucky coincidence, but there is no buffer to really do anything.
  - winnie_ua 5y ago
    You cry because you can't get your money, I cry because my City is being shelled and I have to hide when I hear the siren. We are on different levels. And couple other Cities are half grounded.
    - smugglerFlynn 5y ago
      We are on different levels, and it is not comparable at all. I have no idea what it means to hear the sirens. But several of my close friends from Ukraine do, as they hide from the same exact bombs as you. I cry because I have so little impact on this, I cannot stop the bombings, and the least I can do is help people flee for their lives. And this feels like so little, but that’s all I can do right now.
    - dc2k08 5y ago
      Putin's demands seem reasonable. he wants ethnic Russians in the east of the country to stop being terrorised and murdered and he wants to be assured NATO can't create a security threat for Russia in Ukraine. Is there much public support in Ukraine to end the invasion by agreeing to his terms?
vinicielle 5y ago
Im totally support and really appreciate to admins about this activity! The most specialists are searching the ways to leave Russia (who really can move to other country). And this action (block all cards with your processing) is really block our lives... I don't know what will happened in next week, but I beg you too.. Also I dont know what we should do.. especially if our country's government doesnt support our point of view and doesnt want to hear a voice. Your could check this petition from Russian IT what has been closed (bc of the newest laws) - https://www.facebook.com/100001799497723/posts/7286233221446589 https://www.facebook.com/100001799497723/posts/7286233221446...
cyrill-s 5y ago
guys, as a teenager I heard from my parents about the protests of 2011-2014 in Russia and they didn't change anything. I was at the protests in 2017, 2018, 2021 in Russia and they didn't change anything. today I decided to go to Germany to help my aunt, whose husband was not allowed to cross the border of Ukraine, because this is the only action in my area of responsibility that can definitely change the world
- p1esk 5y ago
  On the other hand, protests of 1917 did change everything, so maybe people should keep trying.
senchopens 5y ago
Russian here. Foreign HNers, please, realize that our country is essentially occupied too, and being a protester is equal to being an enemy to the government. We tried to protest, 10 years we were protesting - and it has only helped the government and sent many people in prison. UN had good reasons to establish the basic rights for life and freedom - so please, respect our rights.
- valerotti 5y ago
  If you are occupied then stand up for defense. Stop whining and trying to escape.
- nixlim 5y ago
  Rubbish, your country is not occupied. People who rule your country are your people, supported by majority of the population, even if brainwashed
  - smugglerFlynn 5y ago
    You should know that people who run the country were practically appointed there with no independent vote, use fearmongering and violence to stay in power for 20+ years, and rewrote our constitution three times by rigged popular voting.
  - slatmother 5y ago
    Are there any examples in the modern world's history when dictatorship has been changed without an access to the mass media? Belarus tried but you can dive deeper to the results of the protests - especially pay attention to the pictures taken in prisons. I know, we all want to stop the war in Ukraine but it's not possible for now without starting a civil war in Russia itself.
  - grujicd 5y ago
    You must live in functioning democracy? Sadly, that’s not like that everywhere. Not living in Russia but I know very well how it feels when your country is ruled by a dictator with no free media. And these authoritharian governments don’t relly just on media, they also put pressure though employment, business, police, arrests, beatings, and every other instrument available. It can feel like occupation.
nixlim 5y ago
It is quite simple, really. You country, with support of brainwashed majority of the population has invaded another country. Private businesses, undoubtedly under public pressure, responded. Why should an exemption be made for your community? It's not like a visa card for an IT professional will differ from a VISA of FSB "professional". 100% behind Ukraine and VISA/Mastercard on this.
- smugglerFlynn 5y ago
  People in power fly private jets and have no limits on amounts of cash they transfer over the border. 0 f given for Visa or Mastercard. In Russia, only scarce middle class really knows these words.
hogrider 5y ago
Hopefully out of this, crypto will be more widely accepted by anyone wanting the russians expat bussiness.
- winnie_ua 5y ago
  Crypto won't work if they cut themselves from internet. It would be forked chain :D
commander4sdasd 5y ago
I'm russian DevOps who fleed from the country 2 years before that, but only for one reason - crazy Putin's regime. And I have many friends from IT, who now are running headlong from conscription into the troops which was declared, from closed borders, from police pressure and jail sentencing due to their political views. Please, let them escape country, by disabling Russia issued cards outside of Russia you only turns them - people who already mostly opposite to dictatorship - into bums, and do nothing to Putin himself. Business, don't share falsey support please.
- dc2k08 5y ago
  The point of the service denial is to agitate precisely this kind of reaction from the public with the desire that they revolt against Putin. Of course if they do, many will die or get locked up in a dark cell somewhere up but it will complicate things for Putin. The other tactic the western powers have is to try and get as many Ukrainian civilians killed as possible for the propaganda effort. This is why they promote lobbing molotovs against tanks etc. Putin desires to kill as few civilians as possible as he can easily win the war. Winning the peace will be more difficult and they need to make it as difficult as possible.
  - commander4sdasd 5y ago
    They will desire revolt...abroad, against meaningless western "collective support" moves from huge businesses. Don't go too deep here, it's only an advertising campaign and collective ostracism action, which can't be avoided by Enterprises without loss of reputation. So they often trying to do something, but almost nothing at the same time, minimizing own damage (but causing it to narrow categories of users).
  - cbg0 5y ago
    > The other tactic the western powers have is to try and get as many Ukrainian civilians killed as possible for the propaganda effort. Actually, I'm pretty sure Putin & his friends are the ones killing civilians, not the western powers.
prostoalex 5y ago
Did Visa and MC cut off transactions voluntarily, or in compliance with sanctions?
- smugglerFlynn 5y ago
  I was not able to find any source that hints at compliance. Given their announcements were posted almost simultaneously, there is a high chance some political factors are at play. For me the fact that dozens of media just practically reposted press release from Visa / MC with no checking for the reasons is an interesting insight into the way modern media works.
Olegt0rr 5y ago
Hi, I'm developer of True Mafia (the largest Telegram game bot). My project helps to entertain more than 20,000 Ukrainian children right now, while they are in bomb shelters. If the bot become stopped, they will cause inconvenience to parents during this difficult time. The civilian population needs support, and I help with this at my own expense. But now I have a problem. Can't pay rent to my European servers even with my own money. So servers will be turned off and deleted soon... I just wanna tell that payment restrictions work against Ukrainian people. Please, help to stop it.
- winnie_ua 5y ago
  How do you think, would I be able to pay for my hosting, if central office of my bank would be bombed? And the value of that chat-bot is questionable, by the way :D. You just trying to plea for morality that you are helping children. By the way, bot has lots of ads. And children in bomb shelter can play Mafia IRL, not using cell phones. (if there are more than 5 participants). Not convincing.
  - Olegt0rr 5y ago
    I know it looks like a bad joke, but people really need an entertainment, even if the war is going. I'm not asking you to pay severs. I'm asking to make ability to spent my own money on it. Are 3-4 advertising message per month - a "Lots of ads"? Seems you're not so familiar with the project.
    - s4YjAk3e 5y ago
      Just go to the streets, stop your bloody dictator killing those children.
      - crate_barre 5y ago
        Bro, it’s a police state. Putin has people beaten and jailed for years.
      - s4YjAk3e 5y ago
winnie_ua 5y ago
First of all, you don’t understand how sanctions work. That’s simple: 1. your country withdraw forces – sanctions are eased 2. your country restores Ukrainian integrity. Punish war criminals and pay reparations to cover Ukrainian losses – sanctions removed. Sanctions are designed to force populace and politicians to realize what benefits of free world they lost. I am sorry but I’m going to be bit emotional. So basically you say to help IT specialists, but Visa/MC works same way for everyone. If you are IT specialist (and you have actual skills) you can find a Job abroad. You are also allowed to move $10k in cash abroad by new Russian law. That can be enough for start. And you can use Crypto for more. Binace is still operational. You can ask for an asylum in other country and then open account in local bank and use Visa/MC than. That’s not convenient and so on, but if you are dedicated to leave Russia you can! But you know who can’t? Male populace of Ukraine. They aren’t allowed to leave country. Many IT professionals: Works from their basements, took arms in hands, help becoming volunteers(paying from own pockets). But you ask to make exceptions to Russian IT guys. And by the way IT is quite Wealthy in CIS countries, but you write “scarce savings” which is laughable. Your people are responsible for your leader. But you want to have some ease-off for few days, but people of Ukraine don’t have those days. If you want to change it – remove Putin from charge.
- winnie_ua 5y ago
  Just force government to stop this madness and Visa/MC would be back (in a while, after Ukrainian losses are covered)
- smugglerFlynn 5y ago
  Purchasing two flight tickets out of Russia right now, using rubles that have now devalued 50%, will cost a monthly salary of a senior developer. Booking hotel for two weeks abroad will cost the same. Half of all the flights out were now shut down. Those who are lucky to still keep their jobs (many people are not) — those are competing the clock as their chances to get out reduce every single minute. People who lost jobs and have no liquid money investments are totally f*d. I closely know at least two people who have relatives in Ukrain and now have no resources to support them. I have several close friends there, and I know that the only way I can support them, once chance presents itself, is from abroad. Because in Russia right now I would get 20 years of imprisonment for that according to recently accepted laws.
da25 5y ago
But Mastercard and Visa block in Russia does not stop domestic purchases [1]. Are the IT companies not paying their domestic employees ? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/06/russians-visa-mastercard-ban-domestic-purchases-mir https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/06/russians-vi...
dreamsbythelake 5y ago
And why it is not an Open Letter to putin to stop a bloodshed in Ukraine? That is what you should do.
- vitaly4n 5y ago
  Well, there was an Open Letter on change.org which was signed by over 1M people, its author was shortly arrested. Also, there were more than dozens open letters from various communites (IT included, 33K signatures). The only impact those open letters had is that now there is a new law in Russia which prohibits (up to 3 years in prison) any public calls to stop Russian army from doing what its are doing. This new law can (and will, in individual cases) be interpreted as "signing the open letter == call to stop a XXX == law violation".
- gdezheti 5y ago
  Russians are doing protest, signing petitions, writing letters. But saying anything against the war is criminalized, risks are really high. And this letters most likely will be ignored, as they were ignored in the past. People are trying to reach companies, that are more likely to hear them.
- cyrill-s 5y ago
  I do not know if you are talking about this in the news, but there are many such letters why do you think that we are silent? we simply do not have a chance to be heard, and you draw conclusions that everything is because of our tacit consent — it's actually not https://zona.media/article/2022/02/27/vse https://zona.media/article/2022/02/27/vse (article in Russian about letters against the war to Putin) from comedians (260+ people) https://meduza.io/news/2022/02/27/rossiyskie-komiki-napisali-otkrytoe-pismo-protiv-voyny-s-ukrainoy https://meduza.io/news/2022/02/27/rossiyskie-komiki-napisali... doctors (there is an English translation; 6k+) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rJPD7_klO3KDWzmd5RdJwpeHEx5ASooFD1QW1HClMvw/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rJPD7_klO3KDWzmd5RdJwpeH... from IT (which was signed by 33,494 people) - https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScEsxsoXl_7R4aD5F8-B7fCCBVwU_BXBaOVJsKszbFyRHRkkw/closedform https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScEsxsoXl_7R4aD5F8-... as well as teachers, architects, animators, musicians, and many others
- 5y ago
akita-wasp 5y ago
The war is war, but Russians that will leave Russia now are the last wave of normal people there. Those who remain will suffer a lot.
gdezheti 5y ago
I'm really scared to stay in Russia. Saying anything against the army has been criminalized recently. Police is torturing and beating up people on peaceful protests. I work in IT, and many of our western partners are stopping our partnership. No new software, no new hardware from other countries. I can't see how my company will stay afloat and pay me. So I want to flee the country, I can't right now and moving will be hard for me financially. Disabling my visa card will make this already unbearable task even harder.
- valerotti 5y ago
  In Ukraine, people are dying because of your silent agreements and constant whining. No one will wait for you anywhere, stop whining and run away from your country. I do not want you to take the jobs of Ukrainian guys who will survive after this war. They will survive without home, some without family, some without legs or arms.
valerotti 5y ago
In Ukraine, people are dying because of your silent agreements and constant whining. No one will wait for you anywhere, stop whining and run away from your country. I do not want you to take the jobs of Ukrainian guys who will survive after this war. They will survive without home, some without family, some without legs or arms.
anotherHugi 5y ago
Thank you for the Letter! I have created a petition to Visa and Mastercard to revert their decision. I will be glad if you help by signing and spreading it https://chng.it/KjNsb7KdNj https://chng.it/KjNsb7KdNj The decision of Visa and Mastercard hits those trying to flee Russia because of political persecution and those whose relatives (often unable to escape due to illnesses) remain in Russia. Please, sign and spread!
commander4sdasd 5y ago
People offering to "protest till you die" in Russia are so simple-minded, even when comparing "Revolution which russian people needs to do" with the series of revolutions at 2004, 2014 in Ukraine - ukrainian protests were receiving international support, had strong opposing political forces, and even support from russian oligarkhs such as Khodorkovsky, while their country wasn't even near comparable with Russia neither in terms of size, nor in time under pressure spent. Russians now just receiving hate and restrictions from each possible side in a authoritarian (totalitarian already I beleive) country and they are still expected to do the same thing.
krus210 5y ago
I am agree
quantstrength 5y ago
This is ridiculous action from visa and mastercard. Goverment make taking more than 10k $ cash abroad illegal and another strike come from payment systems. Whats the plan, do they want to trap most talented and qualified specialists from Russia here? And cut off any oppotunity for us to make world better in tech companies across the world? This make relocation extremely hard! Corporations’ actions are very questionable. No one inside Russia will notice the effect, only those who relocates. This already provoked mass cash withdrawal by people in Georgia and Armenia. No one benefit from this
- moltke 5y ago
  If I were them I'd be up on IRC buying crypto at a premium. And that appears to be happening.
  - quantstrength 5y ago
    Yes, thats what people doing in Turkey for example. In the end of the day it just adds a layer of complexities for those who relocate and does zero pressure on goverment, as the majority of population who stays will not notice anything
mangoTangoBango 5y ago
Can you purchase Monero off of RU bitcoin exchanges with an internal RU credit card? That would be one way to liberate assets from the ruble if you're trying to get out.

83 points by smugglerFlynn 5y ago

mishapoiuytrewq 5y ago

The closure of transfers is now not only affecting IT, but also free media :(

mkoreshkov 5y ago

I was looking for a job when Putin started this inhuman war. Now it's even more difficult to find a job, even in the open world, and in conditions of urgent relocation (without relocation from the company) I can only count on casual earnings with payment to my Russian cards. Please, let's find a way out!

anton_shilin_d 5y ago

scary to stay in Russia.. it’s terrible.. if u disagree with government - be welcome to be beaten by police or/and proceed to jail..

evgenna 5y ago

I have a ticket in Turkey, but I don't know how I will pay for life

smugglerFlynn 5y ago

This reflects fully how most of us feel right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il65k-wEP4s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il65k-wEP4s

userNotFound403 5y ago

I fully support

baguwk 5y ago

I'm totally agree. We're in a same situation right now.

vmt-man 5y ago

We are locked in a financial trap or cage, isolated from the rest of the world. IT sector has the most open-minded and kind people. Fully support!

sdoering 5y ago

Victims on all sides. 'In war people who don't know each other kill each other on orders of people who know each other but don't kill each other.' I can't quote my SO enough with this saying. While I am also still trying to understand why this war makes sense to Putin and Russian leadership in their heads.

tatargarien 5y ago

i agree. cutting russia from visa and mc systems actually helps the russian government by making it easier to retain IT talent to build internal systems and close off the country with over 150m people from outside world, which is easy to control

shipaleks 5y ago

Hi everyone. I understand the idea of blocking Visa/MasterCard in Russia for destroying economy and hurting Putin, and I kinda agree with it. The only problem — this sanction will also lock a lot of IT-people inside Russia, which is provide another chance for Russian economy (due to this people have upper median salary in Russia and they have massive influence on local market). Also this sanction will slow down the "brain leaking" from Russia, which is also can influence on stability of Putin regime.

eldarovich99 5y ago

I tried to pay with Mir Pay and it is just doesn't work. I live in Armenia and I don't know how to pay for anything. I don't know how to live without Visa or Mastercard

y-alice 5y ago

It seems to be true

peevasique 5y ago

Absolutely agree. IT specialists living in Russia are in awful situation. Blocking visa/mastercard actually damages civilians more than Putin's regime

sdoering 5y ago
If I look at it cynically from a strategic position this is probably why it is done. Hit the civilians so that they go to the streets against Putin. That's probably the idea. I just know of no case where this had worked (but I might just miss all the successful examples in history). Sadly it is the normal people who suffer most.
- baguwk 5y ago
  Problem is that for just saying something like "no to war" at the street you can be inprisoned for years in Russia. Goverment have so much brute forces like police and OMON so they can handle anything.
  - okl 5y ago
    I saw videos of Ukrainian civilians stopping your country's tanks with their bare hands.
    - kantrael 5y ago
      Now go check out the video of a 10 years olds getting arrested for holding a sign with “No war” on it. https://youtu.be/YlVkGERhHkg https://youtu.be/YlVkGERhHkg
      - okl 5y ago
        I'd rather protest together with the kids and get jailed, beaten and tortured than to run like a coward and let the fascists take over.
        5y ago

localocaman 5y ago

We don’t deserve this harassment just because we living in Russia

nixlim 5y ago
Oh, but you do. If collective responsibility was not a concept you were aware of before, you will certainly learn it now, just like the Germans did after WWII
- localocaman 5y ago
  yes, I understand what collective responsibility is, as well as collective irresponsibility. in Russia, 90% of the population are below the poverty line and, due to their ignorance, are subject to propaganda from federal channels, which have been under the control of the state for many years. the remaining 10% of people go to rallies, defend (trying to) their position, try to convey their thoughts to the rest. but the policy of "fear", promoted by our government, quickly extinguishes all these people. we take to the streets and risk losing our jobs (and someone loses). now there are even fewer of us, because the government spends the budget not on the welfare of the people, but on its control and intimidation. why these 10% of people should be responsible for our government? for the remaining 90% of people? we were always against it, but they shut our mouths, put us in jail and ruined our lives. we are used to this from our authorities, but we are not used to this from the rest of the world.
  - sidibe 5y ago
    This completely sucks and I'm sorry for you. One if the goals of these sanctions and other actions is probably to snap the other 90% out of their trance. If all the daily things they take for granted don't work maybe they will ask why. Will it work or backfire? Who know but meanwhile Ukrainians is rightfully demanding as much pressure as possible. I am sorry for everyone in this mess, but the faster Putin is forced to stop in Ukraine the sooner it can return to normalcy.
    - 5y ago

dennis_tsvetkov 5y ago

I'm gonna leave Russia day after tomorrow, heading in Turkey and I just don't know how I supposed to pay for anything there with all my blocked cards:(

tatargarien 5y ago
you're lucky you managed to get a ticket. try to get as much cash as possible..
okl 5y ago
- kantrael 5y ago
  We don’t kill people in Kharkiv. Putin does.
  - nixlim 5y ago
    Of course, a single man walking around and killing people. Superman. Please, how stupid do you think everyone is?
    - dang 5y ago
      We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. You can't attack others like this here, no matter how in the right you are or feel you are. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- cyrill-s 5y ago
  But how can I help my aunt and friends in Kiev and other citizens of Ukraine if I can't use my funds at all
- dang 5y ago

swagdydeji 5y ago

I agree Situation gets worse and worse every day, more and more people wanna leave their country. Leave them some ways to do that

IAmNotImpressed 5y ago

I am a software engineer in Russia. My future wife is studying in France. We are both against what Russian government and army are doing. I have less than 3000$ of savings and no ability to work remotely from other countries because I can't get my wage outside of Russia now. I can not leave without severe financial and logistical issues to even meet her again and I don't really have many places to go to. She can not return here, nor should she because it is dangerous, and she can not withdraw cash from her Russian bank accounts where most of her money is to support herself in France. These sanctions, including VISA and MasterCard block, endangered and condemned thousands if not tens and hundreds of thousands of people who have nothing to do with Putin's decision to invade Ukraine. Hell, it endangered 145 millions of people in Russia. Because these sanctions don't hurt Putin or his oligarch supporters but they hurt regular people, who are now facing simply the danger of default.

okl 5y ago

Sorry to break it to you, but regardless of your letters MasterCard and Visa won't return in the near future.

cyrill-s 5y ago

It's true. It scares me. I urgently left Russia with almost no cash; this morning, after reading the news from Mastercard, I miraculously managed to withdraw about 3k, but I don't know how to adjust my life in the future yet To get a job, I need more documents than I managed to take with me, so for now the only source of income remains in Russia, but how to use it is a huge problem (not to mention the exchange rate due to which my salary decreases every day)

winnie_ua 5y ago
You are IT guy, You'll get a job just fine, don't worry. If you are qualified, at least.

mtmail 5y ago

Gathering 15 comments within 15 minutes is very rare on Hackernews. 12 of the 15 comments are from accounts created today. Have people from the mentioned IT communities been asked to come to this page and to create accounts?

kantrael 5y ago
I think there were a link to this post posted in one of the community channels, and some people that didn’t have an account just decided to create one to show their support
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
smugglerFlynn 5y ago
@dang and other mods We have asked people in our telegram channels and communities to share their experience in the comments. I know this breaks the rules. I hope at war time this would be acceptable, given the cause. Posting all this is a huge risk for us. All these stories which people post here are real. We are not Putin to bullshit people with lies or manipulate people to vote for things they don’t believe in — much less than 1% of people in Russia know that hacker news exists. We gain $0 from this activity. I fact, me and a couple of close friends worked 24/7 over the last two days to help as many people as we can to connect with 30+ recruiters and hiring managers.
- gus_massa 5y ago
  One of the problems is that it's very difficult to explain to people that does not use HN what is a good comment in HN. In particular, many of the comments are to short, and that doubles the negative effect on the community. I suggest that the new users that still can edit their comments to write a longer and more personal version. If they can not edit, just self-reply to their own comment and add three or four paragraphs. (Front end or back end? Emacs or Vi? Preferred language? City??? Age range???) I understand that some may not like to share too many personal details, so I added a few question marks. But if the idea is to show that there are real persons suffering on both side, some personal stories are better than "It seems to be true". I also understand that many may not write English too well, I'm a native Spanish speaker and I make a lot of orthographical and gramatical mistakes here. Also, avoid cut and pasting the same "personal" story many times, it will cause an even worse effect. The idea is not foolproof: * It is possible that dang does not like this longer versions neither and still decide to ban all the new accounts. * It is possible that someone will acuse you of being a gpt-3 bot, and adding orthographical errors on purpose, or even nastier things. * I don't expect the community to be super happy with the green account after the expanded comments, just less unhappy.

supamorgen 5y ago

fully support the blockage of these cards. Coming here and whining cause your comfortable life is ruined? Tell this to families in Irpin, which got bombed when evacuating. You have a chance to protest and shout your position yet you choose to turn your face from the problem and leave all alone with it`s problems. So why someone should sympathise you again?

kantrael 5y ago
No, we don’t have a chance to protest. It’s simply not how it works here. People in Europe have a chance to protest, people in USA have a chance to protest, but not the people in Russia. We don’t. When you protest in Russia you just get jailed the very same day and that’s it.
- okl 5y ago
  - kantrael 5y ago
    It’s easy to say such things when you was lucky to born in a country that respects your right to protest and other civilian rights. But would you go to a protest if that guaranteed to get you in jail for half a month at best? Would you speak up publicly for yourself if that meant you get jailed for years? Especially if you have wife and kids? I don’t think so. And if you say yes, I would think it’s a lie, or that you’re stupid.
    - okl 5y ago
      Yes I would and you're a coward. Also poisoning the well with your "if you say yes, I would think it's a lie, or that you're stupid" I hope writing that does at least help you feel better because it won't help the people of Ukraine.
      - slatmother 5y ago
        Oh, c'mon. It's always easy to speak from the sofa - yes, I would, you are a coward and bla-bla-bla. You are not living in this shitty contry and you are judging from the western way of thinking. Remember, it's always a number one priority to save your and your family lives and then care about others.

mpozdeevf 5y ago

I have the same problem. People who support Putin don't have problems like this, because they will not leave Russia. MasterCard and Visa just created problems for people who against Putin's politic.

kantrael 5y ago

It truly scares me how an entire nation of developers just became cut off of the IT community as well as the rest of the world just because they happen to born at the same place as one crazy dictator.

smugglerFlynn 5y ago
What scares me more is that we seem to have this dictatorship thing going for hundred of years already :-/

curly_luaP 5y ago

If this people have such problems, then they can go and protest against this banning, instead of asking to cancel such things.

kantrael 5y ago
And after that they just end up in jail and won’t be able to post anything anywhere anymore.
IAmNotImpressed 5y ago

antoremin 5y ago

This issue affects thousands of anti-war/anti-Putin folks who fled Russia.

klupo222 5y ago

"These sanctions, including VISA and MasterCard block, endangered and condemned thousands if not tens and hundreds of thousands of people who have nothing to do with Putin's decision to invade Ukraine. Hell, it endangered 145 millions of people in Russia. Because these sanctions don't hurt Putin or his oligarch supporters but they hurt regular people, who are now facing simply the danger of default." It is with the support of our citizens that the government invades other countries, so all citizens within the country are responsible. Unite against the Putin regime, we need go to the streets. Unfortunately, the collapse of the country is inevitable and only a change of government can change that. Sanctions will only increase until the withdrawal of our oil and gas.

prisioner 5y ago

narandar 5y ago

Look, there's a lot of people like me, who just want to move out to some normal country, get a job and be good citizens. But we must move fast, because there's a chance that iron curtain closes any time and we're trapped here for ages. Cutting off the transactions leaves us one option: to get a new job and a working visa in a few days. But it never happens in a few days. Please give us time to move and keep our current jobs for some time. Many of us have people who rely upon us: parents, friends, charities and funds. We need our bank cards working to be able to help them. I cannot just donate to my local homeless shelter from a foreign card because — surprise — it will make the shelter a "foreign agent" effectively closing it. And I'll need to send money to my mom because — surprise again — her pension from the government is just about $110/month (11600₽ IIRC). How can I relocate and not abandon people that I care about? With this thing going on, I've got no idea.

mrdigital20 5y ago
as you read this full blown disconnect form the Internet is being signed off — check other threads here on hn
crate_barre 5y ago
I’m going to suggest something a little wild. Russia has way too much border to protect. What happens if you take a car, and head to another country. I don’t know what the fuck to say, the west have to change policy: 10,218 people from Russia have fled in 2020 and applied for asylum in other countries. This corresponds to approximately 0.007% of all residents. The most destination countries hereof have been the United States, France and Germany. Overall, 83 percent of the asylum applications have been rejected. The most successful have been the refugees in Portugal and in Mexico. If the Russian people are under a police state, why aren’t we granting these people political asylum, no questions asked?

cbg0 5y ago

Have Visa and MC already been shut off completely? Visa said it's working on shutting them off in the coming days, you should at least try to use your card to purchase a plane ticket out ASAP.

smugglerFlynn 5y ago
I will describe my personal case. I still receive money from company based in Russia. This block was announced on the first day of three-day public holidays in Russia, when banks do not process corporate transactions. Even if on Wednesday morning my company will arrange an advance payment, it won’t get to me in time to withdraw cash via ATM (Visa ban will become active on Wednesday night, and Mastercard has already stopped working for many people earlier today) I don’t know if that was planned, or was just an unlucky coincidence, but there is no buffer to really do anything.
- winnie_ua 5y ago
  You cry because you can't get your money, I cry because my City is being shelled and I have to hide when I hear the siren. We are on different levels. And couple other Cities are half grounded.
  - smugglerFlynn 5y ago
    We are on different levels, and it is not comparable at all. I have no idea what it means to hear the sirens. But several of my close friends from Ukraine do, as they hide from the same exact bombs as you. I cry because I have so little impact on this, I cannot stop the bombings, and the least I can do is help people flee for their lives. And this feels like so little, but that’s all I can do right now.
  - dc2k08 5y ago
    Putin's demands seem reasonable. he wants ethnic Russians in the east of the country to stop being terrorised and murdered and he wants to be assured NATO can't create a security threat for Russia in Ukraine. Is there much public support in Ukraine to end the invasion by agreeing to his terms?

vinicielle 5y ago

Im totally support and really appreciate to admins about this activity! The most specialists are searching the ways to leave Russia (who really can move to other country). And this action (block all cards with your processing) is really block our lives... I don't know what will happened in next week, but I beg you too.. Also I dont know what we should do.. especially if our country's government doesnt support our point of view and doesnt want to hear a voice. Your could check this petition from Russian IT what has been closed (bc of the newest laws) - https://www.facebook.com/100001799497723/posts/7286233221446589 https://www.facebook.com/100001799497723/posts/7286233221446...

cyrill-s 5y ago

guys, as a teenager I heard from my parents about the protests of 2011-2014 in Russia and they didn't change anything. I was at the protests in 2017, 2018, 2021 in Russia and they didn't change anything. today I decided to go to Germany to help my aunt, whose husband was not allowed to cross the border of Ukraine, because this is the only action in my area of responsibility that can definitely change the world

p1esk 5y ago
On the other hand, protests of 1917 did change everything, so maybe people should keep trying.

senchopens 5y ago

Russian here. Foreign HNers, please, realize that our country is essentially occupied too, and being a protester is equal to being an enemy to the government. We tried to protest, 10 years we were protesting - and it has only helped the government and sent many people in prison. UN had good reasons to establish the basic rights for life and freedom - so please, respect our rights.

valerotti 5y ago
If you are occupied then stand up for defense. Stop whining and trying to escape.
nixlim 5y ago
Rubbish, your country is not occupied. People who rule your country are your people, supported by majority of the population, even if brainwashed
- smugglerFlynn 5y ago
  You should know that people who run the country were practically appointed there with no independent vote, use fearmongering and violence to stay in power for 20+ years, and rewrote our constitution three times by rigged popular voting.
- slatmother 5y ago
  Are there any examples in the modern world's history when dictatorship has been changed without an access to the mass media? Belarus tried but you can dive deeper to the results of the protests - especially pay attention to the pictures taken in prisons. I know, we all want to stop the war in Ukraine but it's not possible for now without starting a civil war in Russia itself.
- grujicd 5y ago
  You must live in functioning democracy? Sadly, that’s not like that everywhere. Not living in Russia but I know very well how it feels when your country is ruled by a dictator with no free media. And these authoritharian governments don’t relly just on media, they also put pressure though employment, business, police, arrests, beatings, and every other instrument available. It can feel like occupation.

nixlim 5y ago

It is quite simple, really. You country, with support of brainwashed majority of the population has invaded another country. Private businesses, undoubtedly under public pressure, responded. Why should an exemption be made for your community? It's not like a visa card for an IT professional will differ from a VISA of FSB "professional". 100% behind Ukraine and VISA/Mastercard on this.

smugglerFlynn 5y ago
People in power fly private jets and have no limits on amounts of cash they transfer over the border. 0 f given for Visa or Mastercard. In Russia, only scarce middle class really knows these words.

hogrider 5y ago

Hopefully out of this, crypto will be more widely accepted by anyone wanting the russians expat bussiness.

winnie_ua 5y ago
Crypto won't work if they cut themselves from internet. It would be forked chain :D

commander4sdasd 5y ago

I'm russian DevOps who fleed from the country 2 years before that, but only for one reason - crazy Putin's regime. And I have many friends from IT, who now are running headlong from conscription into the troops which was declared, from closed borders, from police pressure and jail sentencing due to their political views. Please, let them escape country, by disabling Russia issued cards outside of Russia you only turns them - people who already mostly opposite to dictatorship - into bums, and do nothing to Putin himself. Business, don't share falsey support please.

dc2k08 5y ago
The point of the service denial is to agitate precisely this kind of reaction from the public with the desire that they revolt against Putin. Of course if they do, many will die or get locked up in a dark cell somewhere up but it will complicate things for Putin. The other tactic the western powers have is to try and get as many Ukrainian civilians killed as possible for the propaganda effort. This is why they promote lobbing molotovs against tanks etc. Putin desires to kill as few civilians as possible as he can easily win the war. Winning the peace will be more difficult and they need to make it as difficult as possible.
- commander4sdasd 5y ago
  They will desire revolt...abroad, against meaningless western "collective support" moves from huge businesses. Don't go too deep here, it's only an advertising campaign and collective ostracism action, which can't be avoided by Enterprises without loss of reputation. So they often trying to do something, but almost nothing at the same time, minimizing own damage (but causing it to narrow categories of users).
- cbg0 5y ago
  > The other tactic the western powers have is to try and get as many Ukrainian civilians killed as possible for the propaganda effort. Actually, I'm pretty sure Putin & his friends are the ones killing civilians, not the western powers.

prostoalex 5y ago

Did Visa and MC cut off transactions voluntarily, or in compliance with sanctions?

smugglerFlynn 5y ago
I was not able to find any source that hints at compliance. Given their announcements were posted almost simultaneously, there is a high chance some political factors are at play. For me the fact that dozens of media just practically reposted press release from Visa / MC with no checking for the reasons is an interesting insight into the way modern media works.

Olegt0rr 5y ago

Hi, I'm developer of True Mafia (the largest Telegram game bot). My project helps to entertain more than 20,000 Ukrainian children right now, while they are in bomb shelters. If the bot become stopped, they will cause inconvenience to parents during this difficult time. The civilian population needs support, and I help with this at my own expense. But now I have a problem. Can't pay rent to my European servers even with my own money. So servers will be turned off and deleted soon... I just wanna tell that payment restrictions work against Ukrainian people. Please, help to stop it.

winnie_ua 5y ago
How do you think, would I be able to pay for my hosting, if central office of my bank would be bombed? And the value of that chat-bot is questionable, by the way :D. You just trying to plea for morality that you are helping children. By the way, bot has lots of ads. And children in bomb shelter can play Mafia IRL, not using cell phones. (if there are more than 5 participants). Not convincing.
- Olegt0rr 5y ago
  I know it looks like a bad joke, but people really need an entertainment, even if the war is going. I'm not asking you to pay severs. I'm asking to make ability to spent my own money on it. Are 3-4 advertising message per month - a "Lots of ads"? Seems you're not so familiar with the project.
  - s4YjAk3e 5y ago
    Just go to the streets, stop your bloody dictator killing those children.
    - crate_barre 5y ago
      Bro, it’s a police state. Putin has people beaten and jailed for years.
    - s4YjAk3e 5y ago

winnie_ua 5y ago

First of all, you don’t understand how sanctions work. That’s simple: 1. your country withdraw forces – sanctions are eased 2. your country restores Ukrainian integrity. Punish war criminals and pay reparations to cover Ukrainian losses – sanctions removed. Sanctions are designed to force populace and politicians to realize what benefits of free world they lost. I am sorry but I’m going to be bit emotional. So basically you say to help IT specialists, but Visa/MC works same way for everyone. If you are IT specialist (and you have actual skills) you can find a Job abroad. You are also allowed to move $10k in cash abroad by new Russian law. That can be enough for start. And you can use Crypto for more. Binace is still operational. You can ask for an asylum in other country and then open account in local bank and use Visa/MC than. That’s not convenient and so on, but if you are dedicated to leave Russia you can! But you know who can’t? Male populace of Ukraine. They aren’t allowed to leave country. Many IT professionals: Works from their basements, took arms in hands, help becoming volunteers(paying from own pockets). But you ask to make exceptions to Russian IT guys. And by the way IT is quite Wealthy in CIS countries, but you write “scarce savings” which is laughable. Your people are responsible for your leader. But you want to have some ease-off for few days, but people of Ukraine don’t have those days. If you want to change it – remove Putin from charge.

winnie_ua 5y ago
Just force government to stop this madness and Visa/MC would be back (in a while, after Ukrainian losses are covered)
smugglerFlynn 5y ago
Purchasing two flight tickets out of Russia right now, using rubles that have now devalued 50%, will cost a monthly salary of a senior developer. Booking hotel for two weeks abroad will cost the same. Half of all the flights out were now shut down. Those who are lucky to still keep their jobs (many people are not) — those are competing the clock as their chances to get out reduce every single minute. People who lost jobs and have no liquid money investments are totally f*d. I closely know at least two people who have relatives in Ukrain and now have no resources to support them. I have several close friends there, and I know that the only way I can support them, once chance presents itself, is from abroad. Because in Russia right now I would get 20 years of imprisonment for that according to recently accepted laws.

da25 5y ago

But Mastercard and Visa block in Russia does not stop domestic purchases [1]. Are the IT companies not paying their domestic employees ? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/06/russians-visa-mastercard-ban-domestic-purchases-mir https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/06/russians-vi...

dreamsbythelake 5y ago

And why it is not an Open Letter to putin to stop a bloodshed in Ukraine? That is what you should do.

vitaly4n 5y ago
Well, there was an Open Letter on change.org which was signed by over 1M people, its author was shortly arrested. Also, there were more than dozens open letters from various communites (IT included, 33K signatures). The only impact those open letters had is that now there is a new law in Russia which prohibits (up to 3 years in prison) any public calls to stop Russian army from doing what its are doing. This new law can (and will, in individual cases) be interpreted as "signing the open letter == call to stop a XXX == law violation".
gdezheti 5y ago
Russians are doing protest, signing petitions, writing letters. But saying anything against the war is criminalized, risks are really high. And this letters most likely will be ignored, as they were ignored in the past. People are trying to reach companies, that are more likely to hear them.
cyrill-s 5y ago
I do not know if you are talking about this in the news, but there are many such letters why do you think that we are silent? we simply do not have a chance to be heard, and you draw conclusions that everything is because of our tacit consent — it's actually not https://zona.media/article/2022/02/27/vse https://zona.media/article/2022/02/27/vse (article in Russian about letters against the war to Putin) from comedians (260+ people) https://meduza.io/news/2022/02/27/rossiyskie-komiki-napisali-otkrytoe-pismo-protiv-voyny-s-ukrainoy https://meduza.io/news/2022/02/27/rossiyskie-komiki-napisali... doctors (there is an English translation; 6k+) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rJPD7_klO3KDWzmd5RdJwpeHEx5ASooFD1QW1HClMvw/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rJPD7_klO3KDWzmd5RdJwpeH... from IT (which was signed by 33,494 people) - https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScEsxsoXl_7R4aD5F8-B7fCCBVwU_BXBaOVJsKszbFyRHRkkw/closedform https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScEsxsoXl_7R4aD5F8-... as well as teachers, architects, animators, musicians, and many others
5y ago

akita-wasp 5y ago

The war is war, but Russians that will leave Russia now are the last wave of normal people there. Those who remain will suffer a lot.

gdezheti 5y ago

I'm really scared to stay in Russia. Saying anything against the army has been criminalized recently. Police is torturing and beating up people on peaceful protests. I work in IT, and many of our western partners are stopping our partnership. No new software, no new hardware from other countries. I can't see how my company will stay afloat and pay me. So I want to flee the country, I can't right now and moving will be hard for me financially. Disabling my visa card will make this already unbearable task even harder.

valerotti 5y ago
In Ukraine, people are dying because of your silent agreements and constant whining. No one will wait for you anywhere, stop whining and run away from your country. I do not want you to take the jobs of Ukrainian guys who will survive after this war. They will survive without home, some without family, some without legs or arms.

valerotti 5y ago

In Ukraine, people are dying because of your silent agreements and constant whining. No one will wait for you anywhere, stop whining and run away from your country. I do not want you to take the jobs of Ukrainian guys who will survive after this war. They will survive without home, some without family, some without legs or arms.

anotherHugi 5y ago

Thank you for the Letter! I have created a petition to Visa and Mastercard to revert their decision. I will be glad if you help by signing and spreading it https://chng.it/KjNsb7KdNj https://chng.it/KjNsb7KdNj The decision of Visa and Mastercard hits those trying to flee Russia because of political persecution and those whose relatives (often unable to escape due to illnesses) remain in Russia. Please, sign and spread!

commander4sdasd 5y ago

People offering to "protest till you die" in Russia are so simple-minded, even when comparing "Revolution which russian people needs to do" with the series of revolutions at 2004, 2014 in Ukraine - ukrainian protests were receiving international support, had strong opposing political forces, and even support from russian oligarkhs such as Khodorkovsky, while their country wasn't even near comparable with Russia neither in terms of size, nor in time under pressure spent. Russians now just receiving hate and restrictions from each possible side in a authoritarian (totalitarian already I beleive) country and they are still expected to do the same thing.

krus210 5y ago

I am agree

quantstrength 5y ago

This is ridiculous action from visa and mastercard. Goverment make taking more than 10k $ cash abroad illegal and another strike come from payment systems. Whats the plan, do they want to trap most talented and qualified specialists from Russia here? And cut off any oppotunity for us to make world better in tech companies across the world? This make relocation extremely hard! Corporations’ actions are very questionable. No one inside Russia will notice the effect, only those who relocates. This already provoked mass cash withdrawal by people in Georgia and Armenia. No one benefit from this

moltke 5y ago
If I were them I'd be up on IRC buying crypto at a premium. And that appears to be happening.
- quantstrength 5y ago
  Yes, thats what people doing in Turkey for example. In the end of the day it just adds a layer of complexities for those who relocate and does zero pressure on goverment, as the majority of population who stays will not notice anything

mangoTangoBango 5y ago

Can you purchase Monero off of RU bitcoin exchanges with an internal RU credit card? That would be one way to liberate assets from the ruble if you're trying to get out.