4 ms·

Ironically, the plan to finally shutting them down was made by the pro-nuclear conservative party. Now, when the green party is in power, it's considered to st

by k__ 5y ago

Ironically, the plan to finally shutting them down was made by the pro-nuclear conservative party. Now, when the green party is in power, it's considered to stop the shut down again. One of the founding premisses of the green party was to get rid of those power plants. They worked for decades to that goal.

Aldipower 5y ago
This is not entirely true. The plan was made by the left and green in the beginning of the millennium, then canceled by the conservatives and after some years reapply by the conservatives, sold as their idea. Nice trick, though. :D
masklinn 5y ago
> Ironically, the plan to finally shutting them down was made by the pro-nuclear conservative party. That is... not really true? The plan to shut them down was initiated by the SPD following the SPD/Green election of '98. They also voted to ban the building of new plants. When the CDU was elected in 2009, they decided to extend the existing plants' lifetimes by 8 to 14 years. This was quite unpopular, and if they went back on that idea following fukushima it was mostly because they were being hammered by the Greens (Baden-Wuttemberg went Green after 50 years of CDU rule). When put to a vote, the only people who objected were Die Linke because they thought a 10 years deadline to shut down the plants was too long.
PKop 5y ago
reality > utopia realpolitik > ideology You have to do what you have to do. The massive energy deficit Europe has always meant these policies of "renewables" were vaporware, and were going to run into a brick wall of reality. And the same will be true of needing to continue buying gas from Russia, just watch. Europeans are funny because they naively get led around by the humanitarian and morality propaganda of US, while US continues to buy Russian and Saudi Oil, and just yesterday was meeting with Maduro in Venezuela (world's largest oil reserves) probably to make arrangements to bring his oil back online for US, and be their next Saudi Arabia. Rhetoric around his treatment of his people or Guaido being their guy was always nonsense, now they secure their resources while Europe economy withers. You "go green" while rest of world, China, Russia, US continue to consume cheaper and more productive oil, gas and nuclear, and increase relative economic and geopolitical power at your expense. People should read up on Mackinder's heartland theory, and the geographic pivot [0]. US policy has always been to keep Europe down and Germany and Russia apart; if they were allies, US would lose a huge vassal they can lead around for their own geopolitical aims. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geographical_Pivot_of_History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geographical_Pivot_of_Hist...
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  about 2% of US oil comes from Russia, so please don't act like we're a huge consumer of that. Everyone knows we buy Saudi Oil, and we have for decades, so no huge secret. Also keep "Europe down" is BS. Europeans are adults they can do wha they want. the heartland theory is garbage and many many historians and contemporary political scientists feel the same. Europe also buys Russian and Saudi Oil, probably in larger amounts than the USA so don't blame their ills on us. Again no one has forced them to ally with the USA.
  - splintercell 5y ago
    But oil is fungible. This means you can’t really make statements such as we only buy 2% oil from Russia. Scott Adams even made a strip for bad thinking like this: Dilbert: I'm thinking about buying a more fuel-efficient car. Dogbert: Why? Dilbert: It's my patriotic duty to reduce this country's dependence on foreign sources of oil. Dogbert: Why? Dilbert: Because then the countries that hate us will have less money to fund terrorists. Dogbert: Actually, developing countries would buy the oil you saved. Thus adequately funding those same terrorists. Dilbert: At least I wouldn't be funding them myself. Dogbert: Oil is a fungible commodity. The capitalist system virtually guarantees that you'll end up buying the lowest cost oil from sources unknown to you. Dilbert: Well, maybe, but I want my car to make a statement. Dogbert: And the statement would be "Hey, everyone, I don't understand what fungible means." ————— Also you’re incorrect about US buying Saudi oil. Most of our oil did not come from Saudi Arabia.
Krasnol 5y ago
Nothing about what you wrote is true. Neither was the plan made by the CDU (it was only delayed by them) nor does the Green Party consider stopping the shutdown now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30578930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30578930
- k__ 5y ago
  Well, then I'm relieved.

by k__ 5y ago

Aldipower 5y ago

This is not entirely true. The plan was made by the left and green in the beginning of the millennium, then canceled by the conservatives and after some years reapply by the conservatives, sold as their idea. Nice trick, though. :D

masklinn 5y ago

> Ironically, the plan to finally shutting them down was made by the pro-nuclear conservative party. That is... not really true? The plan to shut them down was initiated by the SPD following the SPD/Green election of '98. They also voted to ban the building of new plants. When the CDU was elected in 2009, they decided to extend the existing plants' lifetimes by 8 to 14 years. This was quite unpopular, and if they went back on that idea following fukushima it was mostly because they were being hammered by the Greens (Baden-Wuttemberg went Green after 50 years of CDU rule). When put to a vote, the only people who objected were Die Linke because they thought a 10 years deadline to shut down the plants was too long.

PKop 5y ago

reality > utopia realpolitik > ideology You have to do what you have to do. The massive energy deficit Europe has always meant these policies of "renewables" were vaporware, and were going to run into a brick wall of reality. And the same will be true of needing to continue buying gas from Russia, just watch. Europeans are funny because they naively get led around by the humanitarian and morality propaganda of US, while US continues to buy Russian and Saudi Oil, and just yesterday was meeting with Maduro in Venezuela (world's largest oil reserves) probably to make arrangements to bring his oil back online for US, and be their next Saudi Arabia. Rhetoric around his treatment of his people or Guaido being their guy was always nonsense, now they secure their resources while Europe economy withers. You "go green" while rest of world, China, Russia, US continue to consume cheaper and more productive oil, gas and nuclear, and increase relative economic and geopolitical power at your expense. People should read up on Mackinder's heartland theory, and the geographic pivot [0]. US policy has always been to keep Europe down and Germany and Russia apart; if they were allies, US would lose a huge vassal they can lead around for their own geopolitical aims. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geographical_Pivot_of_History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geographical_Pivot_of_Hist...

stjohnswarts 5y ago
about 2% of US oil comes from Russia, so please don't act like we're a huge consumer of that. Everyone knows we buy Saudi Oil, and we have for decades, so no huge secret. Also keep "Europe down" is BS. Europeans are adults they can do wha they want. the heartland theory is garbage and many many historians and contemporary political scientists feel the same. Europe also buys Russian and Saudi Oil, probably in larger amounts than the USA so don't blame their ills on us. Again no one has forced them to ally with the USA.
- splintercell 5y ago
  But oil is fungible. This means you can’t really make statements such as we only buy 2% oil from Russia. Scott Adams even made a strip for bad thinking like this: Dilbert: I'm thinking about buying a more fuel-efficient car. Dogbert: Why? Dilbert: It's my patriotic duty to reduce this country's dependence on foreign sources of oil. Dogbert: Why? Dilbert: Because then the countries that hate us will have less money to fund terrorists. Dogbert: Actually, developing countries would buy the oil you saved. Thus adequately funding those same terrorists. Dilbert: At least I wouldn't be funding them myself. Dogbert: Oil is a fungible commodity. The capitalist system virtually guarantees that you'll end up buying the lowest cost oil from sources unknown to you. Dilbert: Well, maybe, but I want my car to make a statement. Dogbert: And the statement would be "Hey, everyone, I don't understand what fungible means." ————— Also you’re incorrect about US buying Saudi oil. Most of our oil did not come from Saudi Arabia.

Krasnol 5y ago

Nothing about what you wrote is true. Neither was the plan made by the CDU (it was only delayed by them) nor does the Green Party consider stopping the shutdown now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30578930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30578930

k__ 5y ago
Well, then I'm relieved.