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Same with pip/Python. Recucing dependencies to a bare minimum helps long term survival of software.

paskozdilar 5y ago
It also helps with reducing dependency distribution issues - I've written single-file Python programs using just the stdlib, sometimes of a really old Python3 version. It's really nice to just `scp` the script to a bunch of remote devices and have everything work out-of-the-box. Of course, PyInstaller can solve dependency distribution issues - but I've sometimes ran into packages that don't play well with PyInstaller (uwsgi, for example, because it's basically a C program distributed using pip, so PyInstaller can't figure out how to bundle it).
ComradePhil 5y ago
But it may hinder short-term survival (because you're spending time reinventing the wheel instead of building competitive product). Lockfiles (poetry.lock, Pipfile.lock etc.) solve the survivality problem for the most part.
- izacus 5y ago
  > But it may hinder short-term survival (because you're spending time reinventing the wheel instead of building competitive product). That's very rare. It's a common trope though and causes amazing examples of startup companies self-destructing themselves when they end up being bogged down in dependency maintenance wars where they're spending a lot of time just fighting all the issues in 100s of alpha libraries they've put on to be "faster". The argument for that was always the one you used. Adding a dependency isn't just "free code", it's also "free code that will probably break at some time and will need to be updated and deconflicted." In my experience, a good set of older, tested and well maintained core depdenencies is usually much better for company, even if that means that they themselves maintain a piece of functionality that exists as a library.
  - ComradePhil 5y ago
    Read my comment in the context of the parent comment I'm replying to and you will see how your comment has nothing to do with mine.

It also helps with reducing dependency distribution issues - I've written single-file Python programs using just the stdlib, sometimes of a really old Python3 version. It's really nice to just `scp` the script to a bunch of remote devices and have everything work out-of-the-box. Of course, PyInstaller can solve dependency distribution issues - but I've sometimes ran into packages that don't play well with PyInstaller (uwsgi, for example, because it's basically a C program distributed using pip, so PyInstaller can't figure out how to bundle it).

ComradePhil 5y ago

But it may hinder short-term survival (because you're spending time reinventing the wheel instead of building competitive product). Lockfiles (poetry.lock, Pipfile.lock etc.) solve the survivality problem for the most part.

izacus 5y ago
> But it may hinder short-term survival (because you're spending time reinventing the wheel instead of building competitive product). That's very rare. It's a common trope though and causes amazing examples of startup companies self-destructing themselves when they end up being bogged down in dependency maintenance wars where they're spending a lot of time just fighting all the issues in 100s of alpha libraries they've put on to be "faster". The argument for that was always the one you used. Adding a dependency isn't just "free code", it's also "free code that will probably break at some time and will need to be updated and deconflicted." In my experience, a good set of older, tested and well maintained core depdenencies is usually much better for company, even if that means that they themselves maintain a piece of functionality that exists as a library.
- ComradePhil 5y ago
  Read my comment in the context of the parent comment I'm replying to and you will see how your comment has nothing to do with mine.