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Using the article's definitions of patriotism and nationalism, I struggle to see who these supposed altruistic patriots are. Certainly not in the military, whi

Using the article's definitions of patriotism and nationalism, I struggle to see who these supposed altruistic patriots are. Certainly not in the military, which is almost solely focused on obtaining more power and prestige for itself and the nation. While there may be some "patriots" in government or policing, it's hard to say that's the dominant ideology. And businesses obsession with money far outweighs any patriotic feelings.

eklavya 5y ago
You might have the good fortune to be born in a country in a stable region or with good neighbours. When life expectancy is not great in the initial active duty years (no foreign deployment, within border, defensive) I think it’s definitely not about power/prestige. It would be extremely ungrateful to state otherwise.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  I still find it hard to think of a nation where the military would primarily be about patriotism. Someplace like Cyprus maybe? But it's hard to view any forced conscription as patriotic. There are some African countries where maybe there's a patriotic element, but they often seem to have either a strong other ideology or be very corrupt. I'll fully admit my knowledge may be lacking, so feel free to tell me what country you think is full of altruistic patriots.
joseph8th 5y ago
I'm one. Just a schmuck, but I haven't given up on the idea of America. Not like George Washington, or Abraham Lincoln, or JFK, but like George Washington Carver, or MLK Jr. The idea that the American Revolution never ended. That the Civil Rights era was just another phase in our centuries long progressively more democratic experiment in self-government
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  That isn't really sounding a ton like the patriotism being discussed, but even if you consider yourself driven by patriotism you haven't explained how your altruistic patriotism has provided the lifestyle/security for others. I didn't deny that some people were patriotic.

eklavya 5y ago

You might have the good fortune to be born in a country in a stable region or with good neighbours. When life expectancy is not great in the initial active duty years (no foreign deployment, within border, defensive) I think it’s definitely not about power/prestige. It would be extremely ungrateful to state otherwise.

boomboomsubban 5y ago
I still find it hard to think of a nation where the military would primarily be about patriotism. Someplace like Cyprus maybe? But it's hard to view any forced conscription as patriotic. There are some African countries where maybe there's a patriotic element, but they often seem to have either a strong other ideology or be very corrupt. I'll fully admit my knowledge may be lacking, so feel free to tell me what country you think is full of altruistic patriots.

joseph8th 5y ago

I'm one. Just a schmuck, but I haven't given up on the idea of America. Not like George Washington, or Abraham Lincoln, or JFK, but like George Washington Carver, or MLK Jr. The idea that the American Revolution never ended. That the Civil Rights era was just another phase in our centuries long progressively more democratic experiment in self-government

boomboomsubban 5y ago
That isn't really sounding a ton like the patriotism being discussed, but even if you consider yourself driven by patriotism you haven't explained how your altruistic patriotism has provided the lifestyle/security for others. I didn't deny that some people were patriotic.