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If you have doubts about what the Russian army will do under Putin, look at Grozny and Aleppo, and their actions so far. This will become total war - there are

If you have doubts about what the Russian army will do under Putin, look at Grozny and Aleppo, and their actions so far. This will become total war - there are no limits and civilians in cities are at severe risk. Your sources have a very local view and may well be safe for now but not later. Unless they are in Western Ukraine they are at risk of carpet bombing as Russia gets more desperate.

throwaway290 5y ago
I never questioned that civilians are at risk, especially in cities. This concern is repeated by my contacts, most of whom are outside of cities. Carpet bombing would be very bad, as Serbia/Montenegro bombings have shown civilian deaths happen and I have less certainty about the precision of Russian military compared to NATO's. As to my sources, sure, and I would want to know first-hand information to the contrary, but I am dubious about social and mass media links. I am amazed by the number of people willing to say "your friends are wrong, they are being killed" while giving reddit links in support.
- grey-area 5y ago
  Nobody is saying your friends are being killed or even bombed right now (depends entirely where they live), we're pointing out that civilians are being bombed indiscriminately by Russia, this is likely to vastly increase in the coming weeks (or months and years if this last that long), and anyone in a city should get out now if they possibly can. Putin will not give up, he will escalate as he has done in the past. He destroyed an entire region of his own country (Chechnya) in order to save face. He views Ukraine as a rebellious region like Chechnya which must be put down by any means necessary. The evidence is there, if you care to look. Frankly your distrust of social media is tending towards paranoia - civilians don't have the means or inclination to mass fake videos, I'd say most are valid reports. Yes videos will be mislabelled (e.g. wrong region) and repeated without question sometimes, but some of the evidence is very clear and very hard to fake.
  - strogonoff 5y ago
    To equate civilian deaths caused by incapable, poorly trained military with directed genocide is disrespectful to the memory of Srebrenica and Holocaust.
    - grey-area 5y ago
      1. I didn't use the word genocide and don't believe that's what we're seeing at present 2. The rhetoric of Putin (Ukraine should not exist, Ukrainians don't exist, they are Russians) definitely makes me think he is capable of genocide in Ukraine.
      - strogonoff 5y ago
        I think OP objected to the use of the word “genocide”. Regarding Russian government’s attitude, to my ears the rhetoric does not seem to be compatible with genocide (rather the opposite—they can’t do this to their own people, which they claim Ukrainians are), but it is compatible with extensive political persecution of those Ukrainians who don’t agree with this position, which is also pretty bad.

throwaway290 5y ago

I never questioned that civilians are at risk, especially in cities. This concern is repeated by my contacts, most of whom are outside of cities. Carpet bombing would be very bad, as Serbia/Montenegro bombings have shown civilian deaths happen and I have less certainty about the precision of Russian military compared to NATO's. As to my sources, sure, and I would want to know first-hand information to the contrary, but I am dubious about social and mass media links. I am amazed by the number of people willing to say "your friends are wrong, they are being killed" while giving reddit links in support.

grey-area 5y ago
Nobody is saying your friends are being killed or even bombed right now (depends entirely where they live), we're pointing out that civilians are being bombed indiscriminately by Russia, this is likely to vastly increase in the coming weeks (or months and years if this last that long), and anyone in a city should get out now if they possibly can. Putin will not give up, he will escalate as he has done in the past. He destroyed an entire region of his own country (Chechnya) in order to save face. He views Ukraine as a rebellious region like Chechnya which must be put down by any means necessary. The evidence is there, if you care to look. Frankly your distrust of social media is tending towards paranoia - civilians don't have the means or inclination to mass fake videos, I'd say most are valid reports. Yes videos will be mislabelled (e.g. wrong region) and repeated without question sometimes, but some of the evidence is very clear and very hard to fake.
- strogonoff 5y ago
  To equate civilian deaths caused by incapable, poorly trained military with directed genocide is disrespectful to the memory of Srebrenica and Holocaust.
  - grey-area 5y ago
    1. I didn't use the word genocide and don't believe that's what we're seeing at present 2. The rhetoric of Putin (Ukraine should not exist, Ukrainians don't exist, they are Russians) definitely makes me think he is capable of genocide in Ukraine.
    - strogonoff 5y ago
      I think OP objected to the use of the word “genocide”. Regarding Russian government’s attitude, to my ears the rhetoric does not seem to be compatible with genocide (rather the opposite—they can’t do this to their own people, which they claim Ukrainians are), but it is compatible with extensive political persecution of those Ukrainians who don’t agree with this position, which is also pretty bad.