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The book is brilliant, I would say, for being readable at the same time as an ode of support and admiration for the social order, and as a scathing critique of
by einpoklum 5y ago
The book is brilliant, I would say, for being readable at the same time as an ode of support and admiration for the social order, and as a scathing critique of that order. IIANM Heinlein himself was more on the side of the first interpretation (correct me if I'm wrong) but was fair enough to offer solid footing for the opposite view; although one wonders how much of it was conscious and how much of it was his capability for credible depiction of social and political phenomena, complete with the warts and flaws.
Verhoeven's book is more obviously satirical, and I recall getting the clear message of how the Humans are a mirror image of the Bugs.
- quantumwannabe 5y agoThe book is a vehicle for Heinlein's political views and he is 100% in support of the ideology described. The political system described in the book isn't fascism, rather it is democracy with the franchise limited to people who have served their country. Heinlein believes people who have never made personal sacrifices make poor decisions and therefore political power should be limited to people who have made such sacrifices. It's the same reason why children lack the right to vote in real-world democracies: a lack of experience to base decisions on. Heinlein also believes that democracy and human rights are fragile and need to be actively defended, not taken for granted. Verhoeven's movie is just a campy film; the man admitted that he stopped reading the book as soon as he saw the first "fascist" element, because he thinks that "military" equals "fascism". The movie is a strawman that does not represent Heinlein's views and is best thought of as a mindless action movie with a simple message of "war bad" instead of biting political satire.
- beebmam 5y agoYes, exactly. Whether one agrees with Heinlein's views or not, his work should likely be put in context. Heinlein's interviews are a good place for that context.
- einpoklum 5y ago> it is democracy with the franchise limited to people who have served their country That's what the system teaches you in school. But IIRC, Heinlein did not force this down your throat as an absolute truth. In fact, and again IIRC, there was never any proper public discussion we are made aware of, of the reason for the war against the bugs. It's even possible that it's a Human-initiated campaign; Rico is not told, nor is he ever concerned with those kinds of things. > Heinlein also believes that democracy and human rights are fragile and need to be actively defended That's one way to characterize it I guess.
- donatj 5y agoMy personal understanding of Heinlein is that he shifted from a very pro-government conservative to a far more laissez faire libertarian as he aged and as you follow his works throughout his life. Starship Troopers came far earlier in this progression.
- prox 5y agoDo you know where Stranger in a Strange Land sits in this spectrum?
- donatj 5y agoI’ve personally only read Starship Troopers and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, that said Stranger in a Strange Land came really early in his career. My understanding in my comment comes almost entirely from the discussion in this episode of Alienating the Audience https://alienating.libsyn.com/episode-5 https://alienating.libsyn.com/episode-5
- einpoklum 5y agoPossibly, but what I'm saying is that he "lets" you read his book as an anti-government radical, and not feel Heinlein is forcing his beliefs onto the plot.