5 ms·

If you think it’s upsetting that people are being called cowards or complicit for not protesting, which I agree is unfair, wait until you find out what the prop

by j4yav 5y ago

If you think it’s upsetting that people are being called cowards or complicit for not protesting, which I agree is unfair, wait until you find out what the propaganda being used to justify the war is saying about Ukrainians.

pastacacioepepe 5y ago
I've seen a lot of russian propaganda and none of it takes the racial angle on Ukrainians. Russian consider Ukrainians part of their culture so it wouldn't make much sense. Any source?
- enkid 5y ago
  Russia saying Ukrainian culture is the same as Russian culture could be considered racist. It's similar to claims that African Americans don't have a unique culture. The result is people justifying suppression of that culture because it "doesn't exist" independently.
  - car_analogy 5y ago
    Are there really semi-common claims that African Americans don't have a unique culture? Opinion: There is no 'White culture' - https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/18/opinions/american-culture-and-race-ford/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/18/opinions/american-culture-and... White culture steals because it has no soul of its own. White people are fleeing Whiteness because they do not have a way to exist apart from their history of oppression. - https://www.salon.com/2013/04/25/how_can_white_americans_be_free/ https://www.salon.com/2013/04/25/how_can_white_americans_be_...
    - enkid 5y ago
      I don't know about modern claims, I was more talking about historical claims, where "culture" was associated with whiteness and things that were considered black were lesser and therefore not worth preserving. Black culture wasn't "American" even thought it was in America. If you claim Ukrainian culture is Russian culture even thought Ukrainians don't agree, and then use that to justify an invasion, it sure seems racist to me.
    - FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
      This is why, when PewDiePie infuriated his attackers by saying "I'm not White, I'm Swedish", he was actually going deeper into their "Theory" than they were.
- kspacewalk2 5y ago
  No one's taking a "racial angle" against Russians. There's are plenty of Russian speakers and ethnic Russians outside of Russia, and nothing whatsoever is directed at them. This is about the country of Russia and its citizens (regardless if ethnicity), so whatever beef you might have with how they're treated, there's no "racial" or "ethnic" angle.
  - rixed 5y ago
    You know one does not choose citizenship, right? I'm currently spending some time and money helping friends that happen to be Russian citizens despite not having been in Russia for years (I'm also going to spend time and money trying to help unknown Ukrainians). Let's not spread the same hatred in Europe than was done in the Middle East. edit: fixed the emotional phrasing
    - kspacewalk2 5y ago
      > You know one does not choose citizenship, right? But one does choose whether to condemn the war of aggression their country is waging. 99% of all the supposed "racial sanctions" "Russians losing their jobs all over the world" and so on are about pressing well-known Russian citizens in the public sphere to either condemn the war of aggression waged in their name or fuck off. It's harsh but I fail to see how it's unfair.
  - pastacacioepepe 5y ago
    Please be honest and recognize that discrimination on the basis of Citizenship is exactly the same as racial discrimination. The same way as nobody chooses their "race", nobody chooses the country they are born into. > There's are plenty of Russian speakers and ethnic Russians outside of Russia Yes and across the west there have been several movements to censor the voices of Russians in every field, from sport to art. In Italy we even attempted to censor an academic course on Dostoyevsky. Luckily after many complaints from all over the country the decision was reverted. But this is the current political sentiment, you can't just ignore it.
    - 5y ago
- archagon 5y ago
  Sure they do. They call Ukrainians “hohli”. Here is a gross example: https://romali83.livejournal.com/29759.html https://romali83.livejournal.com/29759.html The stereotype is that they are lazy and primitive.
  - pastacacioepepe 5y ago
    Tell me of a single country in the world where a part of it does not consider the other lazy and primitive. We have the same exact phenomenon in Italy, the north thinks the south is lazy and primitive. That's ugly indeed and I don't support it, but if you say Russians are racist for this reason than pretty much every country on the planet is culpable of some form of racism.

by j4yav 5y ago

pastacacioepepe 5y ago

I've seen a lot of russian propaganda and none of it takes the racial angle on Ukrainians. Russian consider Ukrainians part of their culture so it wouldn't make much sense. Any source?

enkid 5y ago
Russia saying Ukrainian culture is the same as Russian culture could be considered racist. It's similar to claims that African Americans don't have a unique culture. The result is people justifying suppression of that culture because it "doesn't exist" independently.
- car_analogy 5y ago
  Are there really semi-common claims that African Americans don't have a unique culture? Opinion: There is no 'White culture' - https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/18/opinions/american-culture-and-race-ford/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/18/opinions/american-culture-and... White culture steals because it has no soul of its own. White people are fleeing Whiteness because they do not have a way to exist apart from their history of oppression. - https://www.salon.com/2013/04/25/how_can_white_americans_be_free/ https://www.salon.com/2013/04/25/how_can_white_americans_be_...
  - enkid 5y ago
    I don't know about modern claims, I was more talking about historical claims, where "culture" was associated with whiteness and things that were considered black were lesser and therefore not worth preserving. Black culture wasn't "American" even thought it was in America. If you claim Ukrainian culture is Russian culture even thought Ukrainians don't agree, and then use that to justify an invasion, it sure seems racist to me.
  - FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
    This is why, when PewDiePie infuriated his attackers by saying "I'm not White, I'm Swedish", he was actually going deeper into their "Theory" than they were.
kspacewalk2 5y ago
No one's taking a "racial angle" against Russians. There's are plenty of Russian speakers and ethnic Russians outside of Russia, and nothing whatsoever is directed at them. This is about the country of Russia and its citizens (regardless if ethnicity), so whatever beef you might have with how they're treated, there's no "racial" or "ethnic" angle.
- rixed 5y ago
  You know one does not choose citizenship, right? I'm currently spending some time and money helping friends that happen to be Russian citizens despite not having been in Russia for years (I'm also going to spend time and money trying to help unknown Ukrainians). Let's not spread the same hatred in Europe than was done in the Middle East. edit: fixed the emotional phrasing
  - kspacewalk2 5y ago
    > You know one does not choose citizenship, right? But one does choose whether to condemn the war of aggression their country is waging. 99% of all the supposed "racial sanctions" "Russians losing their jobs all over the world" and so on are about pressing well-known Russian citizens in the public sphere to either condemn the war of aggression waged in their name or fuck off. It's harsh but I fail to see how it's unfair.
- pastacacioepepe 5y ago
  Please be honest and recognize that discrimination on the basis of Citizenship is exactly the same as racial discrimination. The same way as nobody chooses their "race", nobody chooses the country they are born into. > There's are plenty of Russian speakers and ethnic Russians outside of Russia Yes and across the west there have been several movements to censor the voices of Russians in every field, from sport to art. In Italy we even attempted to censor an academic course on Dostoyevsky. Luckily after many complaints from all over the country the decision was reverted. But this is the current political sentiment, you can't just ignore it.
  - 5y ago
archagon 5y ago
Sure they do. They call Ukrainians “hohli”. Here is a gross example: https://romali83.livejournal.com/29759.html https://romali83.livejournal.com/29759.html The stereotype is that they are lazy and primitive.
- pastacacioepepe 5y ago
  Tell me of a single country in the world where a part of it does not consider the other lazy and primitive. We have the same exact phenomenon in Italy, the north thinks the south is lazy and primitive. That's ugly indeed and I don't support it, but if you say Russians are racist for this reason than pretty much every country on the planet is culpable of some form of racism.