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No, I can deny, there's no similarity at all.. There's no concentration camps. There's no gas chambers. There's no ideology of a supreme race. Nothing at all is

• sofixa 5y ago
  > Ukraine: to abandon plans to join NATO. No, for Ukraine and NATO to sign a guarantee Ukraine will never join NATO. Which is a ridiculous thing to ask, just like Danzig, or the Autro-Hungarian ultimatum to Serbia was. And of course, it was 1) deliberately unacceptable 2) all for show, as Kadyrov's leaked communications show ( he's talking about the impeding invasion weeks in advance). The lack of complete parity doesn't impede drawing parallels where they exist, and there are a lot of them.
  • brabel 5y ago
    > The lack of complete parity doesn't impede drawing parallels where they exist, and there are a lot of them. The parallels you're drawing could've been drawn with every single other armed conflict in history.
    • sofixa 5y ago
      Do share a few examples where: * the aggressor makes an impossible to accept ultimatum * claims their enemy isn't really of a different ethnicity and historically belongs to the aggressor * stages false flag operations to excuse their invasion None of these is in any way new, or revolutionary, and wasn't invented by the Nazis, or the Austrians in WWI, but it's not a mandatory element of every other armed conflict of history. And even if it were, it's still valid to compare to other such conflicts, like WWI and WWII, including the Nazis.
• dragonwriter 5y ago
  > the actual trigger of the war was the West's refusal to accept Russian terms in their ultimatum The actual trigger of the war was Putin’s order to invade. The list of demands issued to the West prior wasn't even cited as a pretext for the special military operation when it was announced, though it had some conceptual overlap with a subset of the very long lost of grievances and excuses cited in the announcement of the “special military operation”. > which only asked one thing of Ukraine: to abandon plans to join NATO. This is true in a sense: the only thing the ultimatum demanded of Ukraine was that it be permanently prohibited from entering NATO. BUT it also demanded of NATO that it be permanently banned from any further expansion, that it withdraw all troops and equipment from all countries that joined NATO after 1997 (which is a weird date, as no countries were admitted to NATO between 1990 and 1999, so it really means 1990), and that it be banned from holding drills in Ukraine, Eastern Europe, or the Caucasus without advance permission from Russia. While the invasion was targeted at Ukraine, the ultimatum was targeted at NATO, and specifically at removing it's capacity to interfere should Russia choose to invade, or threaten to invade as a means of dictating internal policies, it's neighbors (including existing NATO members) in the future.
  • brabel 5y ago
    I can agree with you on most points. Where we seem to disagree is at the point where subjectivity is required to interpret the intentions of either side. > BUT it also demanded of NATO that it be permanently banned from any further expansion... That was not a demand that involved Ukraine, and my assertion about what the ultimatum asked "of Ukraine", not of NATO. So there's no disagreement here. The other demands were unacceptable to the West, but probably thrown in for leverage in negotiations, but the West's response was that even Ukraine not joining NATO was out of the question, so we'll never know for sure if that would've been enough to prevent war. > the ultimatum was targeted at NATO, and specifically at removing it's capacity to interfere should Russia choose to invade... That's your interpretation of what the demands were aiming for... here's another: "the ultimatum was targeted at NATO, and aimed specifically at stopping it from expanding into Russian neighbours and placing weapons there, including atomic weapons (which is a requirement of nations that join NATO[1]), threatening Russia right at its border." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing