4 ms·

I'm fairly convinced that a larger part of recruiting by the big companies is to evaporate the hiring market for every other company out there. Yes, developers

by taeric 5y ago

I'm fairly convinced that a larger part of recruiting by the big companies is to evaporate the hiring market for every other company out there. Yes, developers are doing amazing things at a lot of these companies. However, the most amazing thing they are doing is not working at another shop. This is particularly true for the companies that have a habit of "moon shot" projects that are not likely to see customers.

mettamage 5y ago
I wonder if that's true. Most FAANG companies didn't even humor to interview me as a graduate, while I have a bachelor in information science and master in CS. My average grade as an A during my master (8 out 10 in The Netherlands [1]). 3 years later, Facebook humored me. I didn't pass it (poor sleep), but I did pass one coding interview. So in this case, Facebook would've picked me up while other companies wouldn't even think I'd be worthwhile to even give an interview to. I have a hunch this happens quite often. If anyone would have a chat with me (email in profile) and see if I'm referral worthy, I'd be grateful :) I'm happy where I am now, but I think I'd like to switch in a year or two. And unfortunately, I don't think I'll get there without referrals. [1] Conversion guide: https://students.uu.nl/sites/default/files/geo-grading-systems-holland-vs-us-uk.pdf https://students.uu.nl/sites/default/files/geo-grading-syste...
- jandrewrogers 5y ago
  FAANG companies don't care about your educational background. While I agree that their standards for who is worth hiring are inconsistent and incoherent, the hazing ritual isn't entirely random. In Europe specifically, I think there is some cultural impedance mismatch. US tech companies default to the culture of the US West Coast, which has norms that are quite different than Europe. The Europeans that I know that seemed to seamlessly integrate into the FAANG outposts are notable for being, as individuals, pretty far outside the median European culture in a way that is compatible with US West Coast culture. (Tech, even in the US, has a strongly West Coast cultural flavor, which globally is a relatively unique culture generally.)
  - mettamage 5y ago
    I wouldn’t even get an invite (other than Facebook 3 years after graduation). I am incredibly curious when it comes to American culture as I am on the English web all the time. It’s not that. The issue is that FAANG has a narrative that FAANG hires graduate students if those students have done reasonably well at a good university. What they fail to say is that this only seems to he true for US students. And it is painful. I don’t get any feedback as to why I don’t get invited, all I can do is guess. Master computer science Bachelor information science Being a TA in programming courses Being an iOS developer Being a coding bootcamp instructor Side projects I did all this while I while I was studying. And I still I didn’t get invited. I mean what more can I do? Tell me, I will do it. I like computing, I love tech. I’d love to see a FAANG and get the chance to experience it. I didn’t even get a chance for an invite to a graduate position. Instead I got 3 years worth of struggle, a mild depression even. Because I believed the meritocracy narrative. But if it was about pure merit, then I would at least get an invite, judging by all the blog posts I read from people that did. But I didn’t from any of them. And I hold them accountable. They don’t owe me anything but they lied at scale with their meritocratic narrative. I don’t think it’s intentional but it’s also a problem they are not seemingly fixing. And it then hurts to see that computer science is all about “problem solving” because they are not solving this problem, while they (especially Google) claim to be unbiased and meritocratic. 9 years of studies (6 years in computer science related degrees), 2 years of work experience, good grades. All done in the timespan of 8 years. No invite. More importantly, no feedback. Just me guessing in the dark why I don’t get a chance and others do. It feels unfair and painful. It’s not the end of the world by any means, but it is a stark contrast to university, where I got every chance in the world and I aced it. I owned my education! You just need to show up and have the right qualifications. With FAANG I can say that’s not the case. I am sorry for the rant. It’s the flip side of ambition. I am one of the examples that you don’t normally see due to survivorship bias, and I didn’t get there. I wanted to work for Google [1] and Facebook [2] in 2018 and they were the highest companies on my list and I didn’t want to settle because I wanted to work passionately. [1] I liked that Google held empirical thinking in high regard [2] Like Zuckerberg, I studied psychology and computer science. So I felt academically related to him (or anyone that has done that combination for that matter).
- taeric 5y ago
  I apologize if my point is taken as "sole" goal. I don't think there is truly a single goal involved. And, at large, this makes sense. Companies with extra money can afford extra risk on projects that have an obvious tendency to fail. For the interviewing, I don't really have a good answer. Would be easy to say that the interviewing process is broken. But that drastically undersells how difficult interviewing is.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by taeric 5y ago

mettamage 5y ago

I wonder if that's true. Most FAANG companies didn't even humor to interview me as a graduate, while I have a bachelor in information science and master in CS. My average grade as an A during my master (8 out 10 in The Netherlands [1]). 3 years later, Facebook humored me. I didn't pass it (poor sleep), but I did pass one coding interview. So in this case, Facebook would've picked me up while other companies wouldn't even think I'd be worthwhile to even give an interview to. I have a hunch this happens quite often. If anyone would have a chat with me (email in profile) and see if I'm referral worthy, I'd be grateful :) I'm happy where I am now, but I think I'd like to switch in a year or two. And unfortunately, I don't think I'll get there without referrals. [1] Conversion guide: https://students.uu.nl/sites/default/files/geo-grading-systems-holland-vs-us-uk.pdf https://students.uu.nl/sites/default/files/geo-grading-syste...

jandrewrogers 5y ago
FAANG companies don't care about your educational background. While I agree that their standards for who is worth hiring are inconsistent and incoherent, the hazing ritual isn't entirely random. In Europe specifically, I think there is some cultural impedance mismatch. US tech companies default to the culture of the US West Coast, which has norms that are quite different than Europe. The Europeans that I know that seemed to seamlessly integrate into the FAANG outposts are notable for being, as individuals, pretty far outside the median European culture in a way that is compatible with US West Coast culture. (Tech, even in the US, has a strongly West Coast cultural flavor, which globally is a relatively unique culture generally.)
- mettamage 5y ago
  I wouldn’t even get an invite (other than Facebook 3 years after graduation). I am incredibly curious when it comes to American culture as I am on the English web all the time. It’s not that. The issue is that FAANG has a narrative that FAANG hires graduate students if those students have done reasonably well at a good university. What they fail to say is that this only seems to he true for US students. And it is painful. I don’t get any feedback as to why I don’t get invited, all I can do is guess. Master computer science Bachelor information science Being a TA in programming courses Being an iOS developer Being a coding bootcamp instructor Side projects I did all this while I while I was studying. And I still I didn’t get invited. I mean what more can I do? Tell me, I will do it. I like computing, I love tech. I’d love to see a FAANG and get the chance to experience it. I didn’t even get a chance for an invite to a graduate position. Instead I got 3 years worth of struggle, a mild depression even. Because I believed the meritocracy narrative. But if it was about pure merit, then I would at least get an invite, judging by all the blog posts I read from people that did. But I didn’t from any of them. And I hold them accountable. They don’t owe me anything but they lied at scale with their meritocratic narrative. I don’t think it’s intentional but it’s also a problem they are not seemingly fixing. And it then hurts to see that computer science is all about “problem solving” because they are not solving this problem, while they (especially Google) claim to be unbiased and meritocratic. 9 years of studies (6 years in computer science related degrees), 2 years of work experience, good grades. All done in the timespan of 8 years. No invite. More importantly, no feedback. Just me guessing in the dark why I don’t get a chance and others do. It feels unfair and painful. It’s not the end of the world by any means, but it is a stark contrast to university, where I got every chance in the world and I aced it. I owned my education! You just need to show up and have the right qualifications. With FAANG I can say that’s not the case. I am sorry for the rant. It’s the flip side of ambition. I am one of the examples that you don’t normally see due to survivorship bias, and I didn’t get there. I wanted to work for Google [1] and Facebook [2] in 2018 and they were the highest companies on my list and I didn’t want to settle because I wanted to work passionately. [1] I liked that Google held empirical thinking in high regard [2] Like Zuckerberg, I studied psychology and computer science. So I felt academically related to him (or anyone that has done that combination for that matter).
taeric 5y ago
I apologize if my point is taken as "sole" goal. I don't think there is truly a single goal involved. And, at large, this makes sense. Companies with extra money can afford extra risk on projects that have an obvious tendency to fail. For the interviewing, I don't really have a good answer. Would be easy to say that the interviewing process is broken. But that drastically undersells how difficult interviewing is.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]