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Covid has killed an order of magnitude more people than atomic weapons. We got to learn the hard way how destructive viruses can be. People clutching pearls ove

Covid has killed an order of magnitude more people than atomic weapons. We got to learn the hard way how destructive viruses can be. People clutching pearls over the potential to mislead are missing the point. There should be a frank and critical discussion about the risks of viral research, especially near populated areas. But entertaining the possibility of a catastrophic accident is now considered conspiratorial thinking

WanderPanda 5y ago
If it is „just“ one order of magnitude then I would argue that the loss in quality adjusted lifetime is much lower given the demographics of severe covid cases
- alfor 5y ago
  Maybe not if you account for long covid. Many people got lost many year of life but don’t even know it. The fact that it affect heart muscle that have almost no regenerative capacity is chilling.
jjeaff 5y ago
So I assume you also think the US should destroy all of its nuclear weapons today? You will never, ever keep people safe from something by plugging your ears and pretending it doesn't exist. The fact that viruses can cause so much damage is exactly why we need even more research into dangerous viruses, not less.
- ddddfdohvsyknn 5y ago
  Viral research is useful I'm sure it just annoys me when the media is framing the lab leak theory as some absurd and incredibly unlikely possibility. My point is that like a nuclear exchange a low probability times a lot of damage is high risk
- serial_dev 5y ago
  > The fact that viruses can cause so much damage is exactly why we need even more research into dangerous viruses, not less. Isn't this line of thinking going to create a dangerous feedback loop? Scientists experiment to create the deadliest virus yet, this virus leaks (because part of being very dangerous is being very contagious), killing many, shutting down our life as we know it for years. And what did we learn from it? We need more research, we need to experiment and create even more dangerous viruses, because it can cause so much damage? Then repeat? That's not going to end well (but I'm afraid that will happen).
  - jjeaff 5y ago
    Yes, it might create a feedback loop. But the fact is, no matter what the good guys do, the bad guys are going to keep at it. The only alternative is to try and stay ahead of the bad guys.
    - justatdotin 5y ago
      > good guys ^-- found the bug
- doingtheiroming 5y ago
  Nuclear weapons are reasonably well controlled. I’d love to know that they were better controlled than they are though. The same applies to virus research.
- jay_kyburz 5y ago
  How is knowing more about Nukes keeping us safe from Nukes? All nukes should be decommissioned, and all countries should be open to independent inspectors. (I will never happen, but it _should_). This week, of all weeks, this should be clear.
  - jjeaff 5y ago
    And we should also have world peace and we should also end world hunger. That doesn't make either of those things happen. Not staying ahead of the curve just means someone else will.
    - justatdotin 5y ago
      you're on the rong curve.
    - spopejoy 5y ago
      Non-proliferation treaties were a thing until the US decided not to play ball in the 90s. It is entirely feasible to conceive of nuclear containment via treaties, and indeed the world was headed in this direction after the cold war. It doesn't help that any nuclear plant can make a "dirty bomb" btw, which is one more reason to be anti-nuclear. No nukes, no nuke weapons. Not a bad tradeoff all by itself. (And yes, such bans can be enforced, look no further than Iran's difficulty getting nuclear power going).
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Non-proliferation treaties were a thing until the US decided not to play ball in the 90s. The Non-Proliferation Treaty is still a thing, and the US still plays ball with it. Arms limitation treaties were an important thing until the US scrapped the ABM Treaty in 2002, followed almost immediately by Russia dumping START II, which is the closest real thing I can think of to what you said, differing in the kind of treaty involved and the decade the wheels came off.
        spopejoy 5y ago
- justatdotin 5y ago
  > So I assume you also think the US should destroy all of its nuclear weapons today? yes please.
  - jjeaff 5y ago
    Surely you don't think that would be a good idea? That leaves Russia with the most powerful weapons on earth. Something makes me think that wouldn't end well for the rest of the world.
    - justatdotin 5y ago
      your logical fallacies include: * 'good guy' with a gun * mutually asssured destruction * american exceptionalism yes of course all nuclear WMD states (not just the biggest) need to abandon this losing game. The good news is the rest of us have called time: https://banmonitor.org/tpnw-status https://banmonitor.org/tpnw-status
sgt101 5y ago
>Covid has killed an order of magnitude more people than atomic weapons. so far. Current events point to a possible future that remembers covid as a footnote to the events this year.

WanderPanda 5y ago

If it is „just“ one order of magnitude then I would argue that the loss in quality adjusted lifetime is much lower given the demographics of severe covid cases

alfor 5y ago
Maybe not if you account for long covid. Many people got lost many year of life but don’t even know it. The fact that it affect heart muscle that have almost no regenerative capacity is chilling.

jjeaff 5y ago

So I assume you also think the US should destroy all of its nuclear weapons today? You will never, ever keep people safe from something by plugging your ears and pretending it doesn't exist. The fact that viruses can cause so much damage is exactly why we need even more research into dangerous viruses, not less.

ddddfdohvsyknn 5y ago
Viral research is useful I'm sure it just annoys me when the media is framing the lab leak theory as some absurd and incredibly unlikely possibility. My point is that like a nuclear exchange a low probability times a lot of damage is high risk
serial_dev 5y ago
> The fact that viruses can cause so much damage is exactly why we need even more research into dangerous viruses, not less. Isn't this line of thinking going to create a dangerous feedback loop? Scientists experiment to create the deadliest virus yet, this virus leaks (because part of being very dangerous is being very contagious), killing many, shutting down our life as we know it for years. And what did we learn from it? We need more research, we need to experiment and create even more dangerous viruses, because it can cause so much damage? Then repeat? That's not going to end well (but I'm afraid that will happen).
- jjeaff 5y ago
  Yes, it might create a feedback loop. But the fact is, no matter what the good guys do, the bad guys are going to keep at it. The only alternative is to try and stay ahead of the bad guys.
  - justatdotin 5y ago
    > good guys ^-- found the bug
doingtheiroming 5y ago
Nuclear weapons are reasonably well controlled. I’d love to know that they were better controlled than they are though. The same applies to virus research.
jay_kyburz 5y ago
How is knowing more about Nukes keeping us safe from Nukes? All nukes should be decommissioned, and all countries should be open to independent inspectors. (I will never happen, but it _should_). This week, of all weeks, this should be clear.
- jjeaff 5y ago
  And we should also have world peace and we should also end world hunger. That doesn't make either of those things happen. Not staying ahead of the curve just means someone else will.
  - justatdotin 5y ago
    you're on the rong curve.
  - spopejoy 5y ago
    Non-proliferation treaties were a thing until the US decided not to play ball in the 90s. It is entirely feasible to conceive of nuclear containment via treaties, and indeed the world was headed in this direction after the cold war. It doesn't help that any nuclear plant can make a "dirty bomb" btw, which is one more reason to be anti-nuclear. No nukes, no nuke weapons. Not a bad tradeoff all by itself. (And yes, such bans can be enforced, look no further than Iran's difficulty getting nuclear power going).
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Non-proliferation treaties were a thing until the US decided not to play ball in the 90s. The Non-Proliferation Treaty is still a thing, and the US still plays ball with it. Arms limitation treaties were an important thing until the US scrapped the ABM Treaty in 2002, followed almost immediately by Russia dumping START II, which is the closest real thing I can think of to what you said, differing in the kind of treaty involved and the decade the wheels came off.
      - spopejoy 5y ago
justatdotin 5y ago
> So I assume you also think the US should destroy all of its nuclear weapons today? yes please.
- jjeaff 5y ago
  Surely you don't think that would be a good idea? That leaves Russia with the most powerful weapons on earth. Something makes me think that wouldn't end well for the rest of the world.
  - justatdotin 5y ago
    your logical fallacies include: * 'good guy' with a gun * mutually asssured destruction * american exceptionalism yes of course all nuclear WMD states (not just the biggest) need to abandon this losing game. The good news is the rest of us have called time: https://banmonitor.org/tpnw-status https://banmonitor.org/tpnw-status

sgt101 5y ago

>Covid has killed an order of magnitude more people than atomic weapons. so far. Current events point to a possible future that remembers covid as a footnote to the events this year.