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Enough coincidences absolutely do need to be debunked. I'm not sure that's the case here, but talking in the abstract - if you start to see tens or hundreds of

Enough coincidences absolutely do need to be debunked. I'm not sure that's the case here, but talking in the abstract - if you start to see tens or hundreds of well documented coincidences, there comes a point at which you can no longer reasonably dismiss them.

zmgsabst 5y ago
Of the 9 us intel agencies asked: - 4 refused to say what they believed likely, because they couldn’t decide between a lab leak and natural origins; - 4 weakly assessed a natural origin, but didn’t rule out a lab leak; - 1 moderately assessed a lab leak, but didn’t rule out natural origin. This report was before a number of studies that led to more support for the lab leak — eg, the patented gene being the only genetic difference between SARS-CoV-2 and RaTG13. You don’t have to believe it, but surely you can’t say that there’s zero evidence supporting a lab leak.
mushbino 5y ago
The US military was in Wuhan for the military games right at the beginning of the outbreak and they were some of the first to get sick. They also flew through Seattle to get there, which was the site of the first outbreak in the US. Combine that with the history of leaks from Ft. Detrick. I haven't seen any of this be debunked. Why won't they allow inspectors into Ft. Detrick?
- philliphaydon 5y ago
  The lab leak theory originated in China in January 2020. It wasn’t until much later that China started pushing propaganda about Ft. Detrick to distract everyone. It serves no purpose than to get everyone to stop talking about the origin being china and instead shift the blame to everyone else. If China is so positive that they are not the origin they would have opened up for an investigation in 2020. But it’s 2022 and it hasn’t happened and it’s too late.
  - mushbino 5y ago
    They've allowed inspectors from the WHO to investigate twice: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20210203-who-covid-19-investigation-team-visits-chinese-virus-lab-in-wuhan https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/asia-pacifi...
    - esperent 5y ago
      I remember reading loads about this at the time. Didn't they severely restrict their movement and ability to investigate?
      - philliphaydon 5y ago
        Yes and the people who investigated and the WHO complained. So basically 2 worthless investigations.
        mushbino 5y ago
        How many inspectors have been allowed into Ft. Detrick?
        philliphaydon 5y ago
        The only people beating the drum on Ft. Detrick is china. The country that created the conspiracy theory. It's nothing more than misdirection.
  - esperent 5y ago
    > If China is so positive that they are not the origin they would have opened up for an investigation in 2020. I doubt it. I think it's just a standard Chinese reaction to refuse international oversight and they would do this regardless of the truth. So there's not much of a conclusion to be taken from this.

zmgsabst 5y ago

Of the 9 us intel agencies asked: - 4 refused to say what they believed likely, because they couldn’t decide between a lab leak and natural origins; - 4 weakly assessed a natural origin, but didn’t rule out a lab leak; - 1 moderately assessed a lab leak, but didn’t rule out natural origin. This report was before a number of studies that led to more support for the lab leak — eg, the patented gene being the only genetic difference between SARS-CoV-2 and RaTG13. You don’t have to believe it, but surely you can’t say that there’s zero evidence supporting a lab leak.

mushbino 5y ago

The US military was in Wuhan for the military games right at the beginning of the outbreak and they were some of the first to get sick. They also flew through Seattle to get there, which was the site of the first outbreak in the US. Combine that with the history of leaks from Ft. Detrick. I haven't seen any of this be debunked. Why won't they allow inspectors into Ft. Detrick?

philliphaydon 5y ago
The lab leak theory originated in China in January 2020. It wasn’t until much later that China started pushing propaganda about Ft. Detrick to distract everyone. It serves no purpose than to get everyone to stop talking about the origin being china and instead shift the blame to everyone else. If China is so positive that they are not the origin they would have opened up for an investigation in 2020. But it’s 2022 and it hasn’t happened and it’s too late.
- mushbino 5y ago
  They've allowed inspectors from the WHO to investigate twice: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20210203-who-covid-19-investigation-team-visits-chinese-virus-lab-in-wuhan https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/asia-pacifi...
  - esperent 5y ago
    I remember reading loads about this at the time. Didn't they severely restrict their movement and ability to investigate?
    - philliphaydon 5y ago
      Yes and the people who investigated and the WHO complained. So basically 2 worthless investigations.
      - mushbino 5y ago
        How many inspectors have been allowed into Ft. Detrick?
        philliphaydon 5y ago
        The only people beating the drum on Ft. Detrick is china. The country that created the conspiracy theory. It's nothing more than misdirection.
- esperent 5y ago
  > If China is so positive that they are not the origin they would have opened up for an investigation in 2020. I doubt it. I think it's just a standard Chinese reaction to refuse international oversight and they would do this regardless of the truth. So there's not much of a conclusion to be taken from this.