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It's the first action against Russia that made me angry. It's so stupid and wrong at the same time. So, in Russia all the cards will work, nothing is changed h

It's the first action against Russia that made me angry. It's so stupid and wrong at the same time. So, in Russia all the cards will work, nothing is changed here (despite the statements of Visa and Mastercard). Cards issued by Russian banks would stop work abroad. The same is true for any foreign cards in Russia. So, foreigners in Russia are fucked. People who left Russia in a hurry because they didn't want to be part of this craziness or because it's dangerous for them to stay (i.e. they are known protesters against the regime) are fucked. Nice move. Simply genius.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sneak 5y ago
Political/humanitarian circumstances aside, this is a good reminder to all of us, everywhere, that 100% reliance on centralized electronic payment systems is risky because they have rare but total failure modes. ALWAYS carry and travel with cash, no matter what. ALWAYS keep enough cash hidden in your home to cover a month or more of expenses.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  > ALWAYS carry and travel with cash, no matter what. Funny, that's the exact opposite of the advice I hear to only travel with only petty-cash and rely on cards instead, so if you're mugged/robbed or simply misplace your wallet you won't be SOL far from home.
  - latchkey 5y ago
    Exactly. Never mind that as you cross borders, there are legal limits to the amounts you can carry as well as the potential to be searched. If you've ever been through corrupt border crossings (hello Moc Bai), the last thing you want is to be carrying cash.
piskov 5y ago
Also it remains to be seen what will happen with online payments to orgs How one should pay for VPN or VPS, for example
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
  Almost all VPNs accept crypto. As do some VPS providers.
  - piskov 5y ago
    And how are you supposed to buy crypto in this case? :-)
    - akimball 5y ago
      In-country.
ffhhj 5y ago
And they'll probably continue increasing the debt in their balances due to interests, and sueing people that don't pay.
daxuak 5y ago
People paying servers to selfhost are also fucked. This makes absolutely no sense since we all know the oligarchs etc will have oversea bankings and stay float. It's the average people who get punished, all for something they have no control over.
- addandsubtract 5y ago
  No control over? Not with that attitude, I guess.
  - 331c8c71 5y ago
    Seen protests in Belarus?
  - daxuak 5y ago
    Disclaimer I'm not Russian but watching the roll out of the war, I am again fascinated by westerner's imagination of that an inidividual could achieve in a oppressive regime. People literally get arrested by holding a blank paper as a one-man demonstration on the street. People lose source of income and housing semi-permanently because of speaking out anything against the propaganda. The secret police can force mothers to knee down and beg their children to not being vocal. Tell me what I can do without losing my and my family's fucking lives if you think there's a way out of all this. I do not deny the possibility of revolution of any form, but there is tons of things one fears worse than death, even a violent one. I really hope you guys get the chances to do the right thing under these circumstances. The wall between daily norm and hell is thinner than a piece of paper.
    - lostmsu 5y ago
      That's an instance of the prisoner's dilemma though. They can't really arrest every single person who is against the war. They can't even arrest 1% of population - detention system can't handle that.
      - kenosis 5y ago
maxgashkov 5y ago
A little background on why the cards won't stop working in Russia. After first sanctions due to Crimean & Donbass conflict started rolling out in 2014, Russian gvt saw the writing on the wall and gradually strong-armed Visa & MC to move all the local transaction processing to НСПК (National System for Payment Cards). Here's some more info on this (you can use Google Translate): https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%91%D0%B6%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82 https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BE...
azth 5y ago
This is another reason why people are interested in Bitcoin/Ethereum/etc. It's sickening to have arbitrary governments and entities decide on a whim to freeze or steal your hard earned money.
cft 5y ago
The West is erroneously acting from a viewpoint that the majority of Russians support democracy. Thus they think that actions like this will cause popular discontent with Putin. In reality, this reckless action will only strengthen Putin's support.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > West is erroneously acting from a viewpoint that the majority of Russians support democracy. Sanctions have nothing to do beliefs about the presence or support for democracy. > Thus they think that actions like this will cause popular discontent with Putin. No, the West believes that the sanctions limit the productive capacity of the Russian economy, and thereby Putin’s capacity to maintain and expand the war, constraining his practical options (They also think that targeted sanctions on oligarchs put pressure on their support of the regime, which may alter Putin’s choices and prospects, but that even more clearly has nothing to do with democracy.)
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    The Russian military has been extremely insular, and has insisted for a long time to produce everything they need domestically. It is unlikely Russia's warmaking potential will be halted long-term.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
avasylev 5y ago
The main goal of this action is sound - cut off Russian economy from outside and it achieves it. There're undesirable side effects that you listed, but the main objective is still achieved. And we should keep prospective and direct the anger at right target, these inconveniences are not comparable to the terror millions of Ukrainians are under now.
- lostwords 5y ago
  I understand this logic, but in this particular case I don't think it's a good move. I can't see any really good effects here. People in Russia won't notice this change (I don't believe they're able to do with their government something right now, but even this argument is irrelevant, they wouldn't be triggered at all). For all the Russian business it's rather a gift, because if Russian isn't able to pay for something outside, he will pay to someone inside for the similar service. And all these Russian companies will pay taxes after that. There also will be new companies to collect money and roubles from clients so these clients could pay for some services outside of Russia via proxy et cetera. I'm not against inconveniences per se. But this just doesn't really make sense. It's an inconvenience for a small minority of Russians outside the country and foreigners inside. But I don't understand what the main objective that was achieved here (except the beautiful press release). I'd understand if they blocked all Russian cards, but it's technically impossible, and this measure looks like a PR move without any real meaning behind it.
- tsol 5y ago
  >The main goal of this action is sound - cut off Russian economy from outside and it achieves it. It doesn't achieve that. Their economy is only cut off from the west. China, for example, still is find to trade with them. The west is still buying their oil too.
JSavageOne 5y ago
Although I strongly despise Russia's (Putin's) war and agree that they need to be punished, I feel sorry for the non-oligarch Russians abroad in foreign countries who will suddenly be unable to pay with their Russian cards, as well as foreigners in Russia who can no longer use their credit cards. Ultimately the legitimacy of these sanctions come down to how effective they will be in influencing a favorable outcome - ie. pressuring Putin to end the war. Unfortunately Russia is not a democracy - it's a country where you get arrested for protesting, and practically a dictatorship where Putin has been running the country for the last 20+ years. Thus I'm not sure how effective these blanket sanctions will be in changing things, and Putin has so far showed no signs of backing down. But I sure hope I'm wrong. This invasion is completely unjustified, and Putin must be stopped (without escalating to WWIII).
- hnthrway 5y ago
  If they don't work they are one big, tragic fuckup that have pushed Russia and Russians further away from us and set us up for war

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

sneak 5y ago

Political/humanitarian circumstances aside, this is a good reminder to all of us, everywhere, that 100% reliance on centralized electronic payment systems is risky because they have rare but total failure modes. ALWAYS carry and travel with cash, no matter what. ALWAYS keep enough cash hidden in your home to cover a month or more of expenses.

DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
> ALWAYS carry and travel with cash, no matter what. Funny, that's the exact opposite of the advice I hear to only travel with only petty-cash and rely on cards instead, so if you're mugged/robbed or simply misplace your wallet you won't be SOL far from home.
- latchkey 5y ago
  Exactly. Never mind that as you cross borders, there are legal limits to the amounts you can carry as well as the potential to be searched. If you've ever been through corrupt border crossings (hello Moc Bai), the last thing you want is to be carrying cash.

piskov 5y ago

Also it remains to be seen what will happen with online payments to orgs How one should pay for VPN or VPS, for example

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
Almost all VPNs accept crypto. As do some VPS providers.
- piskov 5y ago
  And how are you supposed to buy crypto in this case? :-)
  - akimball 5y ago
    In-country.

ffhhj 5y ago

And they'll probably continue increasing the debt in their balances due to interests, and sueing people that don't pay.

daxuak 5y ago

People paying servers to selfhost are also fucked. This makes absolutely no sense since we all know the oligarchs etc will have oversea bankings and stay float. It's the average people who get punished, all for something they have no control over.

addandsubtract 5y ago
No control over? Not with that attitude, I guess.
- 331c8c71 5y ago
  Seen protests in Belarus?
- daxuak 5y ago
  Disclaimer I'm not Russian but watching the roll out of the war, I am again fascinated by westerner's imagination of that an inidividual could achieve in a oppressive regime. People literally get arrested by holding a blank paper as a one-man demonstration on the street. People lose source of income and housing semi-permanently because of speaking out anything against the propaganda. The secret police can force mothers to knee down and beg their children to not being vocal. Tell me what I can do without losing my and my family's fucking lives if you think there's a way out of all this. I do not deny the possibility of revolution of any form, but there is tons of things one fears worse than death, even a violent one. I really hope you guys get the chances to do the right thing under these circumstances. The wall between daily norm and hell is thinner than a piece of paper.
  - lostmsu 5y ago
    That's an instance of the prisoner's dilemma though. They can't really arrest every single person who is against the war. They can't even arrest 1% of population - detention system can't handle that.
    - kenosis 5y ago

maxgashkov 5y ago

A little background on why the cards won't stop working in Russia. After first sanctions due to Crimean & Donbass conflict started rolling out in 2014, Russian gvt saw the writing on the wall and gradually strong-armed Visa & MC to move all the local transaction processing to НСПК (National System for Payment Cards). Here's some more info on this (you can use Google Translate): https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%91%D0%B6%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82 https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BE...

azth 5y ago

This is another reason why people are interested in Bitcoin/Ethereum/etc. It's sickening to have arbitrary governments and entities decide on a whim to freeze or steal your hard earned money.

cft 5y ago

The West is erroneously acting from a viewpoint that the majority of Russians support democracy. Thus they think that actions like this will cause popular discontent with Putin. In reality, this reckless action will only strengthen Putin's support.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> West is erroneously acting from a viewpoint that the majority of Russians support democracy. Sanctions have nothing to do beliefs about the presence or support for democracy. > Thus they think that actions like this will cause popular discontent with Putin. No, the West believes that the sanctions limit the productive capacity of the Russian economy, and thereby Putin’s capacity to maintain and expand the war, constraining his practical options (They also think that targeted sanctions on oligarchs put pressure on their support of the regime, which may alter Putin’s choices and prospects, but that even more clearly has nothing to do with democracy.)
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  The Russian military has been extremely insular, and has insisted for a long time to produce everything they need domestically. It is unlikely Russia's warmaking potential will be halted long-term.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

avasylev 5y ago

The main goal of this action is sound - cut off Russian economy from outside and it achieves it. There're undesirable side effects that you listed, but the main objective is still achieved. And we should keep prospective and direct the anger at right target, these inconveniences are not comparable to the terror millions of Ukrainians are under now.

lostwords 5y ago
I understand this logic, but in this particular case I don't think it's a good move. I can't see any really good effects here. People in Russia won't notice this change (I don't believe they're able to do with their government something right now, but even this argument is irrelevant, they wouldn't be triggered at all). For all the Russian business it's rather a gift, because if Russian isn't able to pay for something outside, he will pay to someone inside for the similar service. And all these Russian companies will pay taxes after that. There also will be new companies to collect money and roubles from clients so these clients could pay for some services outside of Russia via proxy et cetera. I'm not against inconveniences per se. But this just doesn't really make sense. It's an inconvenience for a small minority of Russians outside the country and foreigners inside. But I don't understand what the main objective that was achieved here (except the beautiful press release). I'd understand if they blocked all Russian cards, but it's technically impossible, and this measure looks like a PR move without any real meaning behind it.
tsol 5y ago
>The main goal of this action is sound - cut off Russian economy from outside and it achieves it. It doesn't achieve that. Their economy is only cut off from the west. China, for example, still is find to trade with them. The west is still buying their oil too.

JSavageOne 5y ago

Although I strongly despise Russia's (Putin's) war and agree that they need to be punished, I feel sorry for the non-oligarch Russians abroad in foreign countries who will suddenly be unable to pay with their Russian cards, as well as foreigners in Russia who can no longer use their credit cards. Ultimately the legitimacy of these sanctions come down to how effective they will be in influencing a favorable outcome - ie. pressuring Putin to end the war. Unfortunately Russia is not a democracy - it's a country where you get arrested for protesting, and practically a dictatorship where Putin has been running the country for the last 20+ years. Thus I'm not sure how effective these blanket sanctions will be in changing things, and Putin has so far showed no signs of backing down. But I sure hope I'm wrong. This invasion is completely unjustified, and Putin must be stopped (without escalating to WWIII).

hnthrway 5y ago
If they don't work they are one big, tragic fuckup that have pushed Russia and Russians further away from us and set us up for war