5 ms·

The danger of owning a firearm, especially if it is always armed for such an occurrence, is more dangerous to the household than the risk of home invasion (whic

by _hypx 5y ago

The danger of owning a firearm, especially if it is always armed for such an occurrence, is more dangerous to the household than the risk of home invasion (which again, is rare). It is an idea that people defend using the concept of "safety", but in reality is motivated by fear or hypermasculinity as the main cause.

daenz 5y ago
You don't seem very open to changing your perspective, but if you care to peruse a subreddit dedicated to reporting defensive gun use in the news, it contains a ton of stories that you've likely never encountered[0]. You may disagree with many of them, but some are absolutely defensible, like an ex-boyfriend breaking into woman's apartment and beating her until she is able to shoot him[1][2] (from the front page of that subreddit). My point is, become familiar with the frequency that these reports happen before you make the claim that it's rare. 0. https://www.reddit.com/r/dgu 1. https://kfor.com/news/local/oklahoma-woman-shoots-and-kills-ex-boyfriend-during-break-in/ 2. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/wickliffe-woman-shoots-boyfriend-after-being-struck-multiple-times-boyfriend-later-arrested
- _hypx 5y ago
  I get the feeling you have that problem in reverse. All defensive gun use is very rare. Certainly, rarer than the opposite (offensive gun use). Combined with suicide risk and accidental deaths or injuries, it is rarely justifiable. Study on this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2848468/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2848468/
  - daenz 5y ago
    The CDC reports 60,000 to 2.5M instances of defensive gun use per year[0] 0. https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/firearms/fastfact.html#:~:text=Estimates%20of%20defensive%20gun%20use,defensive%20gun%20uses%20each%20year https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/firearms/fastfact.htm....
    - _hypx 5y ago
      The numbers regarding defensive gun use is very likely to end up being a classic example of commercial interests affect scientific research. Nearly all of the high numbers come from a handful of sources that have connections with the firearm industry. There are many methodology problems with their numbers too. In the relatively small amount of research on this subject that is not influenced by commercial interests, the numbers suggest that defensive gun use is very rare: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0091743515001188 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00917...
      - daenz 5y ago
        So the evidence linked on the CDC website is compromised because of commercial interests? Please post evidence of this specific example.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > You don't seem very open to changing your perspective, but if you care to peruse a subreddit dedicated to reporting defensive gun use in the news, it contains a ton of stories that you've likely never encountered[0]. Of course there are cases of defensive gun use. But there are also cases of idiotic gun use: > Deputies with the Escambia County Sheriff’s Office arrested three people after one man was shot. Investigators said the shooting victim was shot after an argument about the victim’s alleged littering. * https://www.wkrg.com/northwest-florida/escambia-county/man-shot-after-littering-argument-in-escambia-county-say-investigators/ https://www.wkrg.com/northwest-florida/escambia-county/man-s... > Houston man accused of shooting restaurant workers over BBQ sauce * https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2022/02/26/houston-man-accused-of-shooting-restaurant-workers-over-bbq-sauce/ https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2022/02/26/houston-... > A Utah father was taken into custody after police said he told his 4-year-old child to fire at officers following a dispute over an order at the McDonald's drive-thru in Midvale. * https://kutv.com/news/local/suspect-in-custody-after-shooting-at-midvale-utah-mcdonalds-no-injuries https://kutv.com/news/local/suspect-in-custody-after-shootin... Examples taken from: * https://twitter.com/well_regulated_ https://twitter.com/well_regulated_ Right across the US border Canada manages to have a safe society without everyone packing heat. And it's not like gun ownership is unheard of in Canada, given it's 7th in per capita ownership: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g... For tracking mass shootings, the US has a separate Wikipedia page for each calendar year: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_... Meanwhile the list of massacres (not even all being shootings) fits on one page for Canada: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Canada The idea that firearms make one safer, either at home: * https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M13-1301?articleid=1814426 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M13-1301?articleid=1... or in public: * https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/ does not seem to be borne out by the statistical data.
zthrowaway 5y ago
You seem to not understand that gun owners train how to use firearms, and a proper one will practice high levels of gun safety in a home. Sure, there's going to be morons who own them and make the news. But it's not a toy or for fun. Just as they find out. No worries, the “hyper-masculine” men with badges will come save you. I have no problem with you wanting to take your chances and let someone with evil intent to have their way with you or your loved ones. Just don’t try and take the ability to defend, from others, because you have a problem with masculinity.

by _hypx 5y ago

daenz 5y ago

You don't seem very open to changing your perspective, but if you care to peruse a subreddit dedicated to reporting defensive gun use in the news, it contains a ton of stories that you've likely never encountered[0]. You may disagree with many of them, but some are absolutely defensible, like an ex-boyfriend breaking into woman's apartment and beating her until she is able to shoot him[1][2] (from the front page of that subreddit). My point is, become familiar with the frequency that these reports happen before you make the claim that it's rare. 0. https://www.reddit.com/r/dgu 1. https://kfor.com/news/local/oklahoma-woman-shoots-and-kills-ex-boyfriend-during-break-in/ 2. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/wickliffe-woman-shoots-boyfriend-after-being-struck-multiple-times-boyfriend-later-arrested

_hypx 5y ago
I get the feeling you have that problem in reverse. All defensive gun use is very rare. Certainly, rarer than the opposite (offensive gun use). Combined with suicide risk and accidental deaths or injuries, it is rarely justifiable. Study on this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2848468/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2848468/
- daenz 5y ago
  The CDC reports 60,000 to 2.5M instances of defensive gun use per year[0] 0. https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/firearms/fastfact.html#:~:text=Estimates%20of%20defensive%20gun%20use,defensive%20gun%20uses%20each%20year https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/firearms/fastfact.htm....
  - _hypx 5y ago
    The numbers regarding defensive gun use is very likely to end up being a classic example of commercial interests affect scientific research. Nearly all of the high numbers come from a handful of sources that have connections with the firearm industry. There are many methodology problems with their numbers too. In the relatively small amount of research on this subject that is not influenced by commercial interests, the numbers suggest that defensive gun use is very rare: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0091743515001188 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00917...
    - daenz 5y ago
      So the evidence linked on the CDC website is compromised because of commercial interests? Please post evidence of this specific example.
throw0101a 5y ago
> You don't seem very open to changing your perspective, but if you care to peruse a subreddit dedicated to reporting defensive gun use in the news, it contains a ton of stories that you've likely never encountered[0]. Of course there are cases of defensive gun use. But there are also cases of idiotic gun use: > Deputies with the Escambia County Sheriff’s Office arrested three people after one man was shot. Investigators said the shooting victim was shot after an argument about the victim’s alleged littering. * https://www.wkrg.com/northwest-florida/escambia-county/man-shot-after-littering-argument-in-escambia-county-say-investigators/ https://www.wkrg.com/northwest-florida/escambia-county/man-s... > Houston man accused of shooting restaurant workers over BBQ sauce * https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2022/02/26/houston-man-accused-of-shooting-restaurant-workers-over-bbq-sauce/ https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2022/02/26/houston-... > A Utah father was taken into custody after police said he told his 4-year-old child to fire at officers following a dispute over an order at the McDonald's drive-thru in Midvale. * https://kutv.com/news/local/suspect-in-custody-after-shooting-at-midvale-utah-mcdonalds-no-injuries https://kutv.com/news/local/suspect-in-custody-after-shootin... Examples taken from: * https://twitter.com/well_regulated_ https://twitter.com/well_regulated_ Right across the US border Canada manages to have a safe society without everyone packing heat. And it's not like gun ownership is unheard of in Canada, given it's 7th in per capita ownership: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g... For tracking mass shootings, the US has a separate Wikipedia page for each calendar year: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_... Meanwhile the list of massacres (not even all being shootings) fits on one page for Canada: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Canada The idea that firearms make one safer, either at home: * https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M13-1301?articleid=1814426 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M13-1301?articleid=1... or in public: * https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/ does not seem to be borne out by the statistical data.

zthrowaway 5y ago

You seem to not understand that gun owners train how to use firearms, and a proper one will practice high levels of gun safety in a home. Sure, there's going to be morons who own them and make the news. But it's not a toy or for fun. Just as they find out. No worries, the “hyper-masculine” men with badges will come save you. I have no problem with you wanting to take your chances and let someone with evil intent to have their way with you or your loved ones. Just don’t try and take the ability to defend, from others, because you have a problem with masculinity.