6 ms·

I think PhoneGap is doing great work, they're obviously getting better, and I don't mean to diminish what others have poured so much effort into. But, are ther

I think PhoneGap is doing great work, they're obviously getting better, and I don't mean to diminish what others have poured so much effort into. But, are there any successful apps made with PhoneGap? Writing apps in HTML5 is constantly hyped, but there isn't a single HTML app out of the dozens on my iPhone except Netflix. PhoneGap's app gallery doesn't have a single app I've heard of. (The Netflix app isn't too pleasant, either, unfortunately.)

domhofmann 15y ago
The new LinkedIn and OkCupid apps are primarily HTML5 based. Not quite the same, but every new release of the Facebook app seems to have more of its existing views replaced by HTML5 counterparts.
- flyosity 15y ago
  I'm fairly certain that the Facebook iPhone app does not UIWebViews to render anything. Their fast-scrolling tableviews are painstakingly crafted from scratch, natively, and (I believe) still use Joe Hewitt's framework for complex view rendering. I know some guys on the Facebook iPhone app team and they're die-hard Cocoa developers, I can't see them ever saying "screw it" and using a UIWebView with HTML.
  - domhofmann 15y ago
    Go to your profile and swipe left on a wall post and observe the "Remove" button and its animation. Now go to the bottom of your wall, and tap on the "See more posts..." cell. Notice that the activity indicator is an animated GIF. Open the app frequently and you'll see certain elements in the UI automatically changing without downloading an update. Or check out m.facebook.com and play around with the news feed that is identical to the one in the iPhone app. Granted, there are other approaches you can take to get this behavior, but I'm not sure why you would. My impression is that they're using HTML5 in these areas.
    - flyosity 15y ago
      Hmm, they're not using the native UITableView animation for editing, but that doesn't mean it's HTML. It's just clunky animation, mostly because each cell is doing a lot of drawing translation due to it all being three20. Also, the "see more posts" cell at the bottom is a TTTableMoreButtonCell (https://github.com/facebook/three20/blob/master/src/Three20UI/Sources/TTTableMoreButtonCell.m https://github.com/facebook/three20/blob/master/src/Three20U...) I believe. I know that Facebook is very pro-HTML5 but I don't think there are any views in the native iPhone app that are not native UIKit or based on three20. I'll ask around, would be nice to now if there's any shared code at all on their end.
    - flyosity 15y ago
      I stand corrected! I got confirmation from both Joe Hewitt and JazzyChad that they are indeed webviews used in many places now instead of native tableviews. Disregard everything I said :)
  - kwellman 15y ago
    I just watched this video (http://gigaom.com/2011/09/27/facebook-mobilize-2011/ http://gigaom.com/2011/09/27/facebook-mobilize-2011/) where Facebook's head of mobile product talks (a tiny bit) about using HTML5 in their mobile products instead of all native development to keep pace with launches on the Facebook desktop site. Check out the video at ~16 minute mark.
    - shahidhussain 15y ago
      As if by magic, this story was just published: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_facebook_mobile_will_evolve_with_html5.php http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_facebook_mobile_wil...
      - Tyrant505 15y ago
        Are writers scouring our discussions looking for topics for their readers?
      - abbott 15y ago
        not magic, TechCrunch and other blogs have been talking about Project Spartan for months. The screen shots were leaked yesterday, which is news worthy...unlike our comments.
      - DenisM 15y ago
        It took m a few seconds to realize what is wrong with "HTML5 fist of rage" logo in the article. The fist has 6 fingers. To be fair the original HTML5 logo isn't that much better...
        mmahemoff 15y ago
        6 fingered fist is the original logo. (More precisely, it's the best we had to use until the release of the w3c one you're referring to.)
  - joehewitt 15y ago
    Some, but not all, table views were replaced with web views a few months ago. News Feed is one example that is now HTML.
    - flyosity 15y ago
      I'm not always proven totally wrong on HN... ...but when I am it's by Joe Hewitt. TGIF!
    - DenisM 15y ago
      Hm. How do you handle progressive loading? Do you even bother, or do you just load up the entire news feed and let the WebKit struggle with keeping images in-ram/in-cache etc?
      - wallflower 15y ago
        Netflix uses an interesting WebKit-based approach for progressive loading. Basically, they reuse cells like UITableView does. http://cdn-0.nflximg.com/us/presentations/htmltvui/oscon-2011/Netflix%20Webkit-Based%20UI%20for%20TV%20Devices.pdf http://cdn-0.nflximg.com/us/presentations/htmltvui/oscon-201...
        DenisM 15y ago
        Thank you, good sir!
  - saurik 15y ago
    It is easy to get fast scrolling pseudo-UITableViews using UIWebViews, as long as 1) the tables aren't /that/ long, 2) you change the grid size to something larger than default (to avoid checker-boarding), and 3) you decrease the deceleration constant to match those of normal tables. (Note: I know this from experience with a very widely deployed application: Cydia.)
- rhizome 15y ago
  And I uninstalled the OKC app within a week of them making the switch. Changing it to every action being roundtrip-based made it unusably slow. A total misstep, if you ask me.
pstr 15y ago
Apple's "App Store" app on iOS uses HTML...
- smackfu 15y ago
  Certainly seems like it, or at least every page it displays is doing a separate server call that is not cached very well.
  - sil3ntmac 15y ago
    Last I checked (2+ years ago), iTunes on Mac uses an XML format that describes the layout of the page - pretty close to HTML.
- Limes102 15y ago
  Haha - Indeed. It didn't load the style sheets for me once. Not a pretty sight.
zerostar07 15y ago
Mobile browsers are getting better and better, and apple's iOS happens to have the best. I think the app store distribution mechanism is the main reason you don't see many html apps. It's the big entry point, there's a huge network effect and its cool to say "we have an app for that". Maybe facebook's project Spartan will spark the inevitable switch to html. I mean, check out twitter or kindle on the ipad... what are they lacking in?
maccman 15y ago
Just wait till Spine Mobile is released on the 4th of October at FOWA: http://cl.ly/Aa4V http://cl.ly/Aa4V http://cl.ly/Aa7P http://cl.ly/Aa7P
- rapind 15y ago
  Looks great maccman. Here's a little more context if you're not sure what he means by "Spine Mobile". http://bit.ly/q7Wrkr http://bit.ly/q7Wrkr
jasonlotito 15y ago
> But, are there any successful apps made with PhoneGap? Define successful. Because, let's be honest, if I need an application for my company that will be used internally, does it matter if you haven't heard about it? Don't get caught look at this from just one point of view.
mikeklaas 15y ago
Our app (Zite for iPad) is 90% HTML5+js and (I think) is reasonably successful.
- sv123 15y ago
  Is it made in phonegap though? ie. The only native control on your app is a web browser window?
  - mikeklaas 15y ago
    Nope, it isn't made in PhoneGap. The only native (visible) controls are in the web browser header. There is a lot of non-visible Obj-C, e.g., for controlling caching and other niceties.
    - brackin 15y ago
      Feedly and Wunderlist are also HTML5 apps. Also: Love Zite, congrats on the sale.
alexhaefner 15y ago
This has always been my feeling. It hasn't made me any friends though. Phonegap is a great feel good piece of technology, that browser enthusiasts can point to and say, "See this is what you can do with the web".
zeta 15y ago
The FT app is based on html5. Initially, they had an app, but transitioned quickly to html5. Takes a wee bit longer to load, but barely notice that anymore. The experience otherwise is pretty much the same. And for what its worth, it's the best news app on my ipad.

domhofmann 15y ago

The new LinkedIn and OkCupid apps are primarily HTML5 based. Not quite the same, but every new release of the Facebook app seems to have more of its existing views replaced by HTML5 counterparts.

flyosity 15y ago
I'm fairly certain that the Facebook iPhone app does not UIWebViews to render anything. Their fast-scrolling tableviews are painstakingly crafted from scratch, natively, and (I believe) still use Joe Hewitt's framework for complex view rendering. I know some guys on the Facebook iPhone app team and they're die-hard Cocoa developers, I can't see them ever saying "screw it" and using a UIWebView with HTML.
- domhofmann 15y ago
  Go to your profile and swipe left on a wall post and observe the "Remove" button and its animation. Now go to the bottom of your wall, and tap on the "See more posts..." cell. Notice that the activity indicator is an animated GIF. Open the app frequently and you'll see certain elements in the UI automatically changing without downloading an update. Or check out m.facebook.com and play around with the news feed that is identical to the one in the iPhone app. Granted, there are other approaches you can take to get this behavior, but I'm not sure why you would. My impression is that they're using HTML5 in these areas.
  - flyosity 15y ago
    Hmm, they're not using the native UITableView animation for editing, but that doesn't mean it's HTML. It's just clunky animation, mostly because each cell is doing a lot of drawing translation due to it all being three20. Also, the "see more posts" cell at the bottom is a TTTableMoreButtonCell (https://github.com/facebook/three20/blob/master/src/Three20UI/Sources/TTTableMoreButtonCell.m https://github.com/facebook/three20/blob/master/src/Three20U...) I believe. I know that Facebook is very pro-HTML5 but I don't think there are any views in the native iPhone app that are not native UIKit or based on three20. I'll ask around, would be nice to now if there's any shared code at all on their end.
  - flyosity 15y ago
    I stand corrected! I got confirmation from both Joe Hewitt and JazzyChad that they are indeed webviews used in many places now instead of native tableviews. Disregard everything I said :)
- kwellman 15y ago
  I just watched this video (http://gigaom.com/2011/09/27/facebook-mobilize-2011/ http://gigaom.com/2011/09/27/facebook-mobilize-2011/) where Facebook's head of mobile product talks (a tiny bit) about using HTML5 in their mobile products instead of all native development to keep pace with launches on the Facebook desktop site. Check out the video at ~16 minute mark.
  - shahidhussain 15y ago
    As if by magic, this story was just published: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_facebook_mobile_will_evolve_with_html5.php http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/how_facebook_mobile_wil...
    - Tyrant505 15y ago
      Are writers scouring our discussions looking for topics for their readers?
    - abbott 15y ago
      not magic, TechCrunch and other blogs have been talking about Project Spartan for months. The screen shots were leaked yesterday, which is news worthy...unlike our comments.
    - DenisM 15y ago
      It took m a few seconds to realize what is wrong with "HTML5 fist of rage" logo in the article. The fist has 6 fingers. To be fair the original HTML5 logo isn't that much better...
      - mmahemoff 15y ago
        6 fingered fist is the original logo. (More precisely, it's the best we had to use until the release of the w3c one you're referring to.)
- joehewitt 15y ago
  Some, but not all, table views were replaced with web views a few months ago. News Feed is one example that is now HTML.
  - flyosity 15y ago
    I'm not always proven totally wrong on HN... ...but when I am it's by Joe Hewitt. TGIF!
  - DenisM 15y ago
    Hm. How do you handle progressive loading? Do you even bother, or do you just load up the entire news feed and let the WebKit struggle with keeping images in-ram/in-cache etc?
    - wallflower 15y ago
      Netflix uses an interesting WebKit-based approach for progressive loading. Basically, they reuse cells like UITableView does. http://cdn-0.nflximg.com/us/presentations/htmltvui/oscon-2011/Netflix%20Webkit-Based%20UI%20for%20TV%20Devices.pdf http://cdn-0.nflximg.com/us/presentations/htmltvui/oscon-201...
      - DenisM 15y ago
        Thank you, good sir!
- saurik 15y ago
  It is easy to get fast scrolling pseudo-UITableViews using UIWebViews, as long as 1) the tables aren't /that/ long, 2) you change the grid size to something larger than default (to avoid checker-boarding), and 3) you decrease the deceleration constant to match those of normal tables. (Note: I know this from experience with a very widely deployed application: Cydia.)
rhizome 15y ago
And I uninstalled the OKC app within a week of them making the switch. Changing it to every action being roundtrip-based made it unusably slow. A total misstep, if you ask me.

pstr 15y ago

Apple's "App Store" app on iOS uses HTML...

smackfu 15y ago
Certainly seems like it, or at least every page it displays is doing a separate server call that is not cached very well.
- sil3ntmac 15y ago
  Last I checked (2+ years ago), iTunes on Mac uses an XML format that describes the layout of the page - pretty close to HTML.
Limes102 15y ago
Haha - Indeed. It didn't load the style sheets for me once. Not a pretty sight.

zerostar07 15y ago

Mobile browsers are getting better and better, and apple's iOS happens to have the best. I think the app store distribution mechanism is the main reason you don't see many html apps. It's the big entry point, there's a huge network effect and its cool to say "we have an app for that". Maybe facebook's project Spartan will spark the inevitable switch to html. I mean, check out twitter or kindle on the ipad... what are they lacking in?

maccman 15y ago

Just wait till Spine Mobile is released on the 4th of October at FOWA: http://cl.ly/Aa4V http://cl.ly/Aa4V http://cl.ly/Aa7P http://cl.ly/Aa7P

rapind 15y ago
Looks great maccman. Here's a little more context if you're not sure what he means by "Spine Mobile". http://bit.ly/q7Wrkr http://bit.ly/q7Wrkr

jasonlotito 15y ago

> But, are there any successful apps made with PhoneGap? Define successful. Because, let's be honest, if I need an application for my company that will be used internally, does it matter if you haven't heard about it? Don't get caught look at this from just one point of view.

mikeklaas 15y ago

Our app (Zite for iPad) is 90% HTML5+js and (I think) is reasonably successful.

sv123 15y ago
Is it made in phonegap though? ie. The only native control on your app is a web browser window?
- mikeklaas 15y ago
  Nope, it isn't made in PhoneGap. The only native (visible) controls are in the web browser header. There is a lot of non-visible Obj-C, e.g., for controlling caching and other niceties.
  - brackin 15y ago
    Feedly and Wunderlist are also HTML5 apps. Also: Love Zite, congrats on the sale.

alexhaefner 15y ago

This has always been my feeling. It hasn't made me any friends though. Phonegap is a great feel good piece of technology, that browser enthusiasts can point to and say, "See this is what you can do with the web".

zeta 15y ago

The FT app is based on html5. Initially, they had an app, but transitioned quickly to html5. Takes a wee bit longer to load, but barely notice that anymore. The experience otherwise is pretty much the same. And for what its worth, it's the best news app on my ipad.