4 ms·

And each worth less than half of TSMC or Nvidia. Stepping back, AMD has process advantage in x86 via TSMC and is executing very well. Clearly major opportunity

And each worth less than half of TSMC or Nvidia. Stepping back, AMD has process advantage in x86 via TSMC and is executing very well. Clearly major opportunity to grow with low risk at Intel’s expense. Meanwhile Intel has to implement some big changes to stay competitive, has major capex needs and is trying to break into markets where it isn’t present (or competitive) which is clearly risky.

colinmhayes 5y ago
Intel's $20 billion profit is quite a bit higher than AMDs entire revenue. The idea that amd's growth opportunities and Intels failures are so assured that amd should be worth more than Intel is laughable.
- klelatti 5y ago
  Profit isn’t the only measure - ROC is also highly relevant for companies with billions in CapEx. You can make a ton of profit with a low ROC and you will deservedly get a low valuation. In any event no one is saying anything is assured only that some things are more likely or risky than others. Intel has a lot to do and recent execution has been weak. You may think that will change but the market will need evidence. AMD on the other hand is in the opposite position and gets credit for that. Also you may think it’s laughable but there is no should about it - it’s a statement of fact that AMD’s market cap is more than Intel’s and that fact also plays to AMD’s advantage in some ways (acquisitions for example).
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Osiris 5y ago
    Can you expand the ROC acronym for people that are unfamiliar?
    - klelatti 5y ago
      Sorry - Return on Capital. The point being that Intel can make huge profits but if that all has to be reinvested into new fabs and the market is sceptical of the return on that investment then they won't get much credit for those profits.
    - acover 5y ago
      Return on capital Profits/capital
- mistrial9 5y ago
  utterly off-topic but to my mind, Intel is a criminal monopolist, and has been proven so in court multiple times. Perhaps the chickens are coming home to roost?
  - seanp2k2 5y ago
    Counterpoint: Comcast
harpratap 5y ago
> Stepping back, AMD has process advantage in x86 via TSMC and is executing very well. Clearly major opportunity to grow with low risk at Intel’s expense I don't think this is necessarily true. AMD doesn't seem to do well beyond 35W TDP [0]. And for such "mobile" workloads we have a tough competition coming from ARM (specifically from Qualcomm's Nuvia team) by the end of this year [1] [0]- https://www.anandtech.com/show/17276/amd-ryzen-9-6900hs-rembrandt-benchmark-zen3-plus-scaling/9 https://www.anandtech.com/show/17276/amd-ryzen-9-6900hs-remb... [1] - https://www.anandtech.com/show/17075/qualcomm-x-nuvia-silicon-sampling-in-late-2022-products-in-2023 https://www.anandtech.com/show/17075/qualcomm-x-nuvia-silico...
- klelatti 5y ago
  Don't disagree but equally don't think that this invalidates either of my points here - they have access to TSMC manufacturing which is ahead of Intel at the moment. The volume they can put through TSMC's latest process is another matter and of course not every AMD chip will be able to take advantage. To be clear, I don't think that the investment case rests on AMD outperforming Intel everywhere. They just have to be competitive for long enough in enough segments to take material market share and I think there is a very credible case for that happening.

colinmhayes 5y ago

Intel's $20 billion profit is quite a bit higher than AMDs entire revenue. The idea that amd's growth opportunities and Intels failures are so assured that amd should be worth more than Intel is laughable.

klelatti 5y ago
Profit isn’t the only measure - ROC is also highly relevant for companies with billions in CapEx. You can make a ton of profit with a low ROC and you will deservedly get a low valuation. In any event no one is saying anything is assured only that some things are more likely or risky than others. Intel has a lot to do and recent execution has been weak. You may think that will change but the market will need evidence. AMD on the other hand is in the opposite position and gets credit for that. Also you may think it’s laughable but there is no should about it - it’s a statement of fact that AMD’s market cap is more than Intel’s and that fact also plays to AMD’s advantage in some ways (acquisitions for example).
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Osiris 5y ago
  Can you expand the ROC acronym for people that are unfamiliar?
  - klelatti 5y ago
    Sorry - Return on Capital. The point being that Intel can make huge profits but if that all has to be reinvested into new fabs and the market is sceptical of the return on that investment then they won't get much credit for those profits.
  - acover 5y ago
    Return on capital Profits/capital
mistrial9 5y ago
utterly off-topic but to my mind, Intel is a criminal monopolist, and has been proven so in court multiple times. Perhaps the chickens are coming home to roost?
- seanp2k2 5y ago
  Counterpoint: Comcast

harpratap 5y ago

> Stepping back, AMD has process advantage in x86 via TSMC and is executing very well. Clearly major opportunity to grow with low risk at Intel’s expense I don't think this is necessarily true. AMD doesn't seem to do well beyond 35W TDP [0]. And for such "mobile" workloads we have a tough competition coming from ARM (specifically from Qualcomm's Nuvia team) by the end of this year [1] [0]- https://www.anandtech.com/show/17276/amd-ryzen-9-6900hs-rembrandt-benchmark-zen3-plus-scaling/9 https://www.anandtech.com/show/17276/amd-ryzen-9-6900hs-remb... [1] - https://www.anandtech.com/show/17075/qualcomm-x-nuvia-silicon-sampling-in-late-2022-products-in-2023 https://www.anandtech.com/show/17075/qualcomm-x-nuvia-silico...

klelatti 5y ago
Don't disagree but equally don't think that this invalidates either of my points here - they have access to TSMC manufacturing which is ahead of Intel at the moment. The volume they can put through TSMC's latest process is another matter and of course not every AMD chip will be able to take advantage. To be clear, I don't think that the investment case rests on AMD outperforming Intel everywhere. They just have to be competitive for long enough in enough segments to take material market share and I think there is a very credible case for that happening.