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If you have the time, please share a bit more detail about the modelling approach + assumptions used for the DCF. I'd find that pretty interesting and suspect o
by shoo 5y ago
If you have the time, please share a bit more detail about the modelling approach + assumptions used for the DCF. I'd find that pretty interesting and suspect others would also.
Whenever I've tried to run my own DCF analyses, I've found some parameters and modelling assumptions have a major impact on the resulting estimate. Discount rate parameter is one. The model and assumptions used to estimate revenue and operating/net profit when extrapolating 5 - 10 - 20 years into the future also make a large impact.
Suppose in our DCF analysis we aspire to forecast company performance over a 25 year time horizon and then discount the profits back to some NPV. Then we need some way of extrapolating the company's revenue for the next 25 years. One way to do this could be to put together some kind causal model where we identify the major factors that contribute toward generating revenue -- maybe this could break down revenue by segment or major product line, and attempt to predict supply, demand, price points, production capacity etc for each product line, using knowledge of how the industry works. Then we'd have to figure out how to forecast all of those drivers of revenue, e.g. forecasting the capex used to build new plant to increase capacity & so on. Another way could be to ignore trying to build a semi-plausible generative model for revenue and instead just do some kind of simple empirical model only -- e.g. fit a regression model to the trailing 5 years of historical revenue numbers or annual revenue growth rates combined with some kind of prior to force revenue growth to decay toward something unobjectionable the further into the future we project.
I've got some code that automates calculating a DCF. I've adopted some form of the latter approach to forecasting revenue -- fit a simple empirical statistical model to historical revenue -- it isn't very intellectually satisfying as it doesn't incorporate any real world knowledge about the causes of revenue in specific industries or companies. So, many forecasts of revenue generated by this approach will be quite wrong, leading to quite misleading DCF estimates. But on the other hand, I can run my kind of dumb DCF analysis in a completely automated way using inputs that are reported in company financials in a standard format, which is much quicker and easier.
When i run my crude DCF analysis over INTC and AMD -- using a somewhat arbitrary 6% discount rate -- I get the estimates
INTC -- priced by mr market at $48.07 / share
quantile 0.2 $87 / share
quantile 0.5 $140 / share
quantile 0.8 $196 / share
AMD -- priced by mr market at $108.41 / share
quantile 0.2 $42 / share
quantile 0.5 $77 / share
quantile 0.8 $121 / share
the "quantiles" are different scenarios of assumed future revenue growth trajectories. quantile 0.2 assumes relatively poor revenue growth. quantile 0.8 assumes relatively great revenue growth. quantile 0.50 is some kind of midline.
market valuation for AMD is either based on something that isn't discounted future earnings, or market's forecast for how future earnings will evolve is very different to my crude backward-looking model.
- andrewmcwatters 5y agoI use the most recent 5-10 years of earnings, assuming there isn't significant deviation therein. Line of best fit. Adjust for modest inflation. I haven't read any literature that suggests a better method, but would be inclined to discuss such techniques. I use the 10-year Treasury note as a risk-free rate, which results in a share price much too high due to historically low interest rates. I do not have a reasonable risk premium that I otherwise use, as I have not yet found a sensible contemporary measure of such a premium. I do know that investing with a desired 10% real return is a relevant figure, but I don't have many other data points on that. As a result, I use a 50% discount from the resulting price to provide a margin of safety. These are all roughly textbook constants that I use to serve as some mechanical "suggested basis [for] maximum appraisal for investment." I also perform these in an automated way with publicly available SEC data... I don't believe that it is supposed to be intellectually stimulating. I think it's boring, and I'm fine with that. There is no simple mechanical process that will allow one to appropriately incorporate trade information and adjust valuations as a result. You don't know until you see the reports. And most of the time, not really even then. I don't know what the BOM is for plenty of products. I don't need to research that. I don't enjoy analyzing companies that have too much at stake to produce their net earnings; even companies I personally enjoy I have a hard time convincing myself even with a fair value estimate that I'd like to own its common stock. I do appreciate your reply, though. I'm more interested in these discussions than ones simply claiming how supposedly great or immoral or how much potential a company has. If I want opinions to fuel speculative theories, I can go to Twitter.
- danielmarkbruce 5y agoThere is a strategic change going on in the chip business. Blindly putting in the last 10 years with a couple adjustments isn't going to do it. Think of putting in the last 10 years for blockbuster, or newspapers, while in the late 90s. No good.
- shoo 5y agoyou've identified one of the key weaknesses of this general valuation approach. trying to make forward-looking predictions extrapolating a decade or two out based upon backward-looking financial metrics may only make sense in situations where you have reason to believe that the conditions and dynamics that generated the past results will continue to persist for the next decade or two into the future (and it might not even make sense then)