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I'm sure the world would love to hear your solution for how to end the conflict in Ukraine with zero collateral damage anywhere. To me, it seems like there is s

by leshow 5y ago

I'm sure the world would love to hear your solution for how to end the conflict in Ukraine with zero collateral damage anywhere. To me, it seems like there is simply no way to make the ruling class of Russia suffer without invariably harming the average Russian.

lowkey 5y ago
Unfortunately I don’t have the perfect answer to immediately end this conflict with no collateral damage to anyone as you said. That doesn’t mean I advocate arbitrarily punishing innocent civilians for the actions of their rulers - especially when those rulers are proven to be authoritarians who can and will ruthlessly crush dissent from their populace. If you read my other comments on this thread you will see I shared some ideas that I believe would both be more targeted towards Russia’s elite, while also bringing more direct pain to defund Putin’s ability to wage war. Namely the west should cut off Russia’s supply of money by banning the purchase of Russian oil. I realize this action will hurt regular Ukrainians and other Innocent Europeans which is why I also advocate for direct subsidies to reduce the cost of energy for these affected populations, paid for by western governments. TL;DR: One strategy we might try to make it harder for the elites to wage war would be to stop giving them money to wage war while at the same time temporarily subsidizing energy costs for populations affected by the oil sanctions.
- leshow 5y ago
  > Namely the west should cut off Russia’s supply of money by banning the purchase of Russian oil. I don't think that's sufficient. You mentioned the collapse of the ruble, this is an outcome that heavily effects Russians but also directly effects the ability for the war to be financed. In the end, you cannot separate the two, in order to apply enough pressure to one you must invariably harm the other.
  - lowkey 5y ago
    Estimates vary but it seems the current sanctions include a carve-out allowing Russia to sell $0.8-$1 billion USD per day in oil and gas. I can assure you that a significant portion of these funds is being used by Putin’s regime to wage this war. I also think it is silly to argue that cutting Russia off from this direct subsidy from the west would be insufficient to have chilling effect on Putin’s war - especially when we haven’t even tried. How do you know it is insufficient?
- x1ph0z 5y ago
  Throughout this thread it sounds like you’re bemoaning the fact that there are no ‘precision bombs’ for the Russian economy. So you’d rather do nothing? We’ve seen what appeasement to dictators achieve.
  - lowkey 5y ago
    Not true. I am bemoaning the fact that there IS at least one precision nuke that would single-handedly hit 30% of Russia’s GDP, cause direct pain to Russia’s oligarchs and elites, and immediate decimate Putin’s war machine - all while doing much less damage to ordinary Russians than broad indiscriminate economic sanctions. I am bemoaning the fact that this tactical nuke we could drop on Russia’s oil & gas sector is clear and obvious to most everyone involved but would result in economic and political blowback for the west so everyone is burying their head in the sand and pretending the option to stop buying oil from authoritarians who attack our allies doesn’t exist. I have yet to hear a good argument for why broad economic sanctions against an entire nation and its people are more targeted or more effective than just not buying oil or gas from Russia’s elites and stop directly subsidizing Putin’s war machine. Perhaps someone here can enlighten me?

by leshow 5y ago

lowkey 5y ago

Unfortunately I don’t have the perfect answer to immediately end this conflict with no collateral damage to anyone as you said. That doesn’t mean I advocate arbitrarily punishing innocent civilians for the actions of their rulers - especially when those rulers are proven to be authoritarians who can and will ruthlessly crush dissent from their populace. If you read my other comments on this thread you will see I shared some ideas that I believe would both be more targeted towards Russia’s elite, while also bringing more direct pain to defund Putin’s ability to wage war. Namely the west should cut off Russia’s supply of money by banning the purchase of Russian oil. I realize this action will hurt regular Ukrainians and other Innocent Europeans which is why I also advocate for direct subsidies to reduce the cost of energy for these affected populations, paid for by western governments. TL;DR: One strategy we might try to make it harder for the elites to wage war would be to stop giving them money to wage war while at the same time temporarily subsidizing energy costs for populations affected by the oil sanctions.

leshow 5y ago
> Namely the west should cut off Russia’s supply of money by banning the purchase of Russian oil. I don't think that's sufficient. You mentioned the collapse of the ruble, this is an outcome that heavily effects Russians but also directly effects the ability for the war to be financed. In the end, you cannot separate the two, in order to apply enough pressure to one you must invariably harm the other.
- lowkey 5y ago
  Estimates vary but it seems the current sanctions include a carve-out allowing Russia to sell $0.8-$1 billion USD per day in oil and gas. I can assure you that a significant portion of these funds is being used by Putin’s regime to wage this war. I also think it is silly to argue that cutting Russia off from this direct subsidy from the west would be insufficient to have chilling effect on Putin’s war - especially when we haven’t even tried. How do you know it is insufficient?
x1ph0z 5y ago
Throughout this thread it sounds like you’re bemoaning the fact that there are no ‘precision bombs’ for the Russian economy. So you’d rather do nothing? We’ve seen what appeasement to dictators achieve.
- lowkey 5y ago
  Not true. I am bemoaning the fact that there IS at least one precision nuke that would single-handedly hit 30% of Russia’s GDP, cause direct pain to Russia’s oligarchs and elites, and immediate decimate Putin’s war machine - all while doing much less damage to ordinary Russians than broad indiscriminate economic sanctions. I am bemoaning the fact that this tactical nuke we could drop on Russia’s oil & gas sector is clear and obvious to most everyone involved but would result in economic and political blowback for the west so everyone is burying their head in the sand and pretending the option to stop buying oil from authoritarians who attack our allies doesn’t exist. I have yet to hear a good argument for why broad economic sanctions against an entire nation and its people are more targeted or more effective than just not buying oil or gas from Russia’s elites and stop directly subsidizing Putin’s war machine. Perhaps someone here can enlighten me?