4 ms·

> Amount of money I have seen lost because people were using different versions of excel sheets that were not up to date is staggering. Isn't that a processual

> Amount of money I have seen lost because people were using different versions of excel sheets that were not up to date is staggering. Isn't that a processual problem? An organizational and structural problem? I have seen the same with Google Sheets as with Excel. I know Excel isn't liked in a lot of tech circles but I personally think MS came a long way with it. But yes - it can't solve organisational problems.

ozim 5y ago
Yes but as my experience shows process/structural problems are quite easily solved with software. Then if someone has problem with process you tell them "it is software that requires it" and they comply. Organizational problems are mostly problematic to translate to software and make projects die. Because if company is not organized, they won't have possibility to organize their requirements which will lead to problems.
- couchand 5y ago
  > process/structural problems are quite easily solved with software. My experience has been the opposite: the software is easy, but only if you already know what it needs to do. So you have to actually solve the problem first. > Then if someone has problem with process you tell them "it is software that requires it" and they comply. How incredibly user-hostile. If they have a legitimate concern, don't leave it unaddressed. If there's something important about the process they're missing, it's a mistake to use the current state of the software as an excuse.
  - ozim 5y ago
    I wonder why people so often are picking least charitable interpretation and go with it. If I would write "I like fight sports" would you write "how incredibly hostile, don't punch people on the streets"?
    - couchand 5y ago
      Can you help me see the more charitable interpretation here? It sounded to me like the suggestion was to appeal to the supposed inflexibility of software whenever a question about process is raised. The software is entirely malleable. If the process can't change, explain why. But don't pretend that the software can't change.
jazzyjackson 5y ago
I wonder how much money has been lost hiring software developers to implement something that Excel was handling fine. (snark snark, sorry, of course there are a lot of good reasons to move away from excel, but many projects fail or money might have been better spent elsewhere given how expensive it is to contract out for something new)
- withinboredom 5y ago
  In my experience in being hired years ago for this kind of work, there is a significant cost to going “web app” but I’d also sell custom excel plugins. Usually these businesses were hitting the limits of excel’s capabilities when humans need to be involved (complex and hard to adjust formulas, copy/paste mistakes, etc). Most businesses don’t realize they can just have a custom excel plugin, and sometimes that is all they need. Sometimes a web app or custom software is the better solution.
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    interesting... whats that look like? I know of VB script that can manipulate tables... does that let you do custom GUIs too? Any API where a webform could interact with excel? I might like to get into this field, solving business problems without building a whole app sounds great.
    - withinboredom 5y ago
      Just install the SDK when installing Visual Studio. I don’t see why you can’t have an embedded web view as long as you love Internet Explorer… it’s easier to just create a native UI though and call an API.

ozim 5y ago

Yes but as my experience shows process/structural problems are quite easily solved with software. Then if someone has problem with process you tell them "it is software that requires it" and they comply. Organizational problems are mostly problematic to translate to software and make projects die. Because if company is not organized, they won't have possibility to organize their requirements which will lead to problems.

couchand 5y ago
> process/structural problems are quite easily solved with software. My experience has been the opposite: the software is easy, but only if you already know what it needs to do. So you have to actually solve the problem first. > Then if someone has problem with process you tell them "it is software that requires it" and they comply. How incredibly user-hostile. If they have a legitimate concern, don't leave it unaddressed. If there's something important about the process they're missing, it's a mistake to use the current state of the software as an excuse.
- ozim 5y ago
  I wonder why people so often are picking least charitable interpretation and go with it. If I would write "I like fight sports" would you write "how incredibly hostile, don't punch people on the streets"?
  - couchand 5y ago
    Can you help me see the more charitable interpretation here? It sounded to me like the suggestion was to appeal to the supposed inflexibility of software whenever a question about process is raised. The software is entirely malleable. If the process can't change, explain why. But don't pretend that the software can't change.

jazzyjackson 5y ago

I wonder how much money has been lost hiring software developers to implement something that Excel was handling fine. (snark snark, sorry, of course there are a lot of good reasons to move away from excel, but many projects fail or money might have been better spent elsewhere given how expensive it is to contract out for something new)

withinboredom 5y ago
In my experience in being hired years ago for this kind of work, there is a significant cost to going “web app” but I’d also sell custom excel plugins. Usually these businesses were hitting the limits of excel’s capabilities when humans need to be involved (complex and hard to adjust formulas, copy/paste mistakes, etc). Most businesses don’t realize they can just have a custom excel plugin, and sometimes that is all they need. Sometimes a web app or custom software is the better solution.
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  interesting... whats that look like? I know of VB script that can manipulate tables... does that let you do custom GUIs too? Any API where a webform could interact with excel? I might like to get into this field, solving business problems without building a whole app sounds great.
  - withinboredom 5y ago
    Just install the SDK when installing Visual Studio. I don’t see why you can’t have an embedded web view as long as you love Internet Explorer… it’s easier to just create a native UI though and call an API.