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> The fact that many believe that male circumcision is a grave violation of boys' rights to body autonomy is not. For reference, how many people believe that?

• bjourne 5y ago
  > Dutch doctors want politicians and human rights groups to speak out and discourage the practice of male circumcision in the Netherlands because they say it is a “painful and harmful ritual,” and a violation of children’s rights. > Between 10,000 and 15,000 boys are circumcised in the Netherlands each year, mostly for religious reasons and not always with an anesthetic, according to the Royal Dutch Medical Association (KNMG) which represents surgeons, pediatricians, general practitioners and urologists. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dutch-circumcision-health-idUSTRE78M3R620110923 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dutch-circumcision-health... You can find similar views expressed by many medical associations around the world (https://www.thelocal.dk/20161205/danish-doctors-come-out-against-circumcision/ https://www.thelocal.dk/20161205/danish-doctors-come-out-aga... https://www.thelocal.se/20090725/20900/ https://www.thelocal.se/20090725/20900/ https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-5142149 https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-5142149) I believe the American Pediatrics Association is the only major one that has come out in favor of circumcision. Their statement is along the lines of "the benefits slightly outweigh the risks". Americans may be cool with genital cutting but in the rest of the world the procedure is very controversial.
  • _Nat_ 5y ago
    I appreciate that you're able to show that some people hold such beliefs, but the numbers I'm finding suggest that it's still less common than beliefs in, say, 9/11-conspiracy theories. Don't get me wrong -- I appreciate that you can show that there're advocacy groups in that arena. But there're groups who advocate 9/11 conspiracy-theories, aliens, anti-vaccination, flat-Earth, mysticism, etc., so the mere existence of advocacy groups doesn't seem like a distinction from such things. Instead, is there some sort of poll/survey -- non-American, if you prefer -- that demonstrates that a significant portion of some population holds such strong views against circumcision? To note it: If you want to get Wikipedia to change its presentation, presenting such evidence might help out. Because, it really does seem like you're advocating a niche belief; but, if you can demonstrate that it's held by a significant portion of people on Earth, then that might change stuff.
    • bjourne 5y ago
      I don't understand how you can compare national medical associations with 9/11-conspiracy theorists? 86% (https://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2020-09-01-partier-kraever-forbud-mod-omskaering-af-drenge-stort-flertal-af-danskere-enige https://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2020-09-01-partier-kraever-fo...) of all Danes and 62% of all Britons (https://eachother.org.uk/uk-ban-male-infant-circumcision/ https://eachother.org.uk/uk-ban-male-infant-circumcision/), and 64% of all Swiss (https://www.thelocal.ch/20120731/majority-of-swiss-want-religious-circumcision-banned/ https://www.thelocal.ch/20120731/majority-of-swiss-want-reli...) want to outlaw circumcision. The idea that a child's right to body autonomy takes precedence over its parents desire to have elective surgery performed on their genitals is certainly not a fringe view in many Western countries. However, this is not about circumcision per se. My point is that Wikipedia's presentation of circumcision is a product of the article's guardians who. You can look at the article's talk page and see for yourself that plenty of people have complained about the article's slanted coverage but no one has been able to do anything about it due to the opposition of the guardians. This is how it works on almost any article about any remotely controversial topic. Just being right is not enough when you're up against an experienced editor that knows all the rules and have a vested interest in pushing a certain view.
• lozenge 5y ago
  How did you jump from the view being "niche" or "minority" to it being irrelevant?
  • _Nat_ 5y ago
    The comment that I was responding to complained that the first two paragraphs of a Wikipedia article didn't mention a perspective that they considered important. I asked if it was a niche-perspective because that'd seem relevant to if it'd be notable enough to go into one of the first two paragraphs.