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There’s a growing school of thought of the exact opposite: end users expect the UX that frameworks deliver and the back-end is simply an API in front of a DB.

by pbreit 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ozim 5y ago
I don't know if it is growing thought of school. I think it is just obvious direction. Take for example excel and if you change value in one cell you get all calculations in sheet updated automatically. Implement something like that without a framework and only plain js with dozens of fields having dependencies on each other, good luck :) Implement something like that with cute "recalculate" button on the bottom of 3 screen scroll and no one will use your solution.
- interpenetrate 5y ago
  >Implement something like that without a framework and only plain js with dozens of fields having dependencies on each other, good luck :) I just implemented a complete spreadsheet solution inspired by Airtable (sticky header and columns, column resizing, virtual scrolling, row selection, cell selection, cell editing, a few cell types) in approximately 500 lines of vanilla JS. No virtual DOM, no reactive data library, no framework. Just direct DOM manipulations. It performs great and is pretty easy to understand and extend. For now, the reactive "field dependency" problem is just solved by re-rendering the entire spreadsheet when a cell is updated (really just re-rendering the visible rows, because of virtual scrolling). The state management is just not that complicated. I suggest this sort of project as an exercise if you've found yourself engrossed by this or that front-end framework. My go-to front-end frameworks for the past few years have been Mithril.js and Vue, but they really would have been a major hindrance in this case. I can't imagine Svelte or Solid.js or whatever being any better...
  - ozim 5y ago
    That is not what I am implementing. Re implementing custom app with its business rules that was buried in excel sheet is a different thing. People don't want to buy excel in a browser, because they can have that already, they want their custom logic and in a way it works in excel.
kmstout 5y ago
This tactic of sending me a custom client in JS that exchanges blobs of JSON and drives the display I generally dislike when I'm in the browser. It is, however, nicer to reverse engineer than in the old days, where I'd have to parse data from HTML.

There’s a growing school of thought of the exact opposite: end users expect the UX that frameworks deliver and the back-end is simply an API in front of a DB.

by pbreit 5y ago

There’s a growing school of thought of the exact opposite: end users expect the UX that frameworks deliver and the back-end is simply an API in front of a DB.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ozim 5y ago

I don't know if it is growing thought of school. I think it is just obvious direction. Take for example excel and if you change value in one cell you get all calculations in sheet updated automatically. Implement something like that without a framework and only plain js with dozens of fields having dependencies on each other, good luck :) Implement something like that with cute "recalculate" button on the bottom of 3 screen scroll and no one will use your solution.

interpenetrate 5y ago
>Implement something like that without a framework and only plain js with dozens of fields having dependencies on each other, good luck :) I just implemented a complete spreadsheet solution inspired by Airtable (sticky header and columns, column resizing, virtual scrolling, row selection, cell selection, cell editing, a few cell types) in approximately 500 lines of vanilla JS. No virtual DOM, no reactive data library, no framework. Just direct DOM manipulations. It performs great and is pretty easy to understand and extend. For now, the reactive "field dependency" problem is just solved by re-rendering the entire spreadsheet when a cell is updated (really just re-rendering the visible rows, because of virtual scrolling). The state management is just not that complicated. I suggest this sort of project as an exercise if you've found yourself engrossed by this or that front-end framework. My go-to front-end frameworks for the past few years have been Mithril.js and Vue, but they really would have been a major hindrance in this case. I can't imagine Svelte or Solid.js or whatever being any better...
- ozim 5y ago
  That is not what I am implementing. Re implementing custom app with its business rules that was buried in excel sheet is a different thing. People don't want to buy excel in a browser, because they can have that already, they want their custom logic and in a way it works in excel.

kmstout 5y ago

This tactic of sending me a custom client in JS that exchanges blobs of JSON and drives the display I generally dislike when I'm in the browser. It is, however, nicer to reverse engineer than in the old days, where I'd have to parse data from HTML.