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Putin has lied constantly during this conflict. He said his troops were not on Ukraine's border when they were. When called out on that, he said they weren't
by beloch 5y ago
Putin has lied constantly during this conflict. He said his troops were not on Ukraine's border when they were. When called out on that, he said they weren't going to invade right up until they did invade. The latest is that Russia agreed to honour a limited ceasefire around civilian evacuation corridors but then broke that ceasefire.
Evidently, all we can do is respond to what Putin does. One must assume that, if the West declared war on Russia, Russia would take specific military actions. Since Russia has not responded to sanctions with those military actions, Putin evidently does not view sanctions as a declaration of war, no matter what noises come out of his mouth.
This is the downside of constant prevarication for state leaders. If Putin ever truthfully tells the West where there is line past which he will respond with force, nobody will know he's telling the truth. e.g. Putin has repeatedly implied that instituting a "no fly" zone would result in nuclear war, but it's clear we can't trust that. It may be a lie. If NATO planes move in Russian planes may simply move out with no further response from Russia.
- 331c8c71 5y agoHow do we know that it were the Russians who didn't respect the ceasefire? EDIT: this point is being repeated over and over but I have not seen anything that would corroborate the ukranian side of the story (neither the russian to be fair).
- another_why 5y agoIf you've seen it in the news or read in twitter - it's truth.
- 331c8c71 5y agoThe Western media plainly won't report what the Russian side says. https://tass.com/society/1417395 https://tass.com/society/1417395
- another_why 5y agoI cant even open it. Clearly something important which my government doesnt want me to know
- andy-x 5y agoYou realize that TASS is state-owned and just repeats the same propaganda that comes from Kremlin, don't you? EDIT: To be more specific, the news I heard on Ukrainian media was that corridors were indeed open for a brief period, but fire started again almost at the moment when transports with refugees began moving, giving them no chance to leave.
- ratsmack 5y agoI believe I detect a little bit of sarcasm in that statement.
- 331c8c71 5y agoNot at all. The agreement to create temporary ceasefires to evacuate civilians were the only real outcome of the last talks. It was largely reported in Russian media. Today during the morning briefing the Russian officials said that the zones and logistics were agreed and respected but russian forces haven't observed any movement of civilians. They observed rearrangement of ukranian units though. The ukranian live YouTube channel I follow provided a few messages from (allegedly) people nearby (e.g. no buses or people were still in shelters). No clear picture from these messages.
- ratsmack 5y agoIt's sad that we can't trust most media to give the real story. It seems that 98% of all media today has an agenda. I suspect that social media echo chambers are a distraction that drives a lot of this regardless of political affiliation.
- 331c8c71 5y agoHow does this even work? In that particular case has it crossed the journalists' mind to check what the Russian position is? Did he understand implicitly that would be frowned upon by the boss/editor? Gotta read that manufacturing consent book.
- drran 5y agoWe (Ukrainians) believed Russians once, in Ilovaisk. Of course, we will not believe them second time. Our government sends notices to citizens to not trust Russian promises about evacuation or green corridors. Because of Ilovaisk tragedy, «green corridor» now has meaning of death threat, e.g. «we will make green corridors for Russians» means «we will fool Russians and then kill them», not a promise of a safe escape. When Russians says that they will open a green corridor for us again, everyone is flies from them.
- jeremyjh 5y agoI don't understand all this talk of a "no-fly" zone. That idea boils down to: "let's start killing Russians". That is an act of war, and to think he could respond to it with any other interpretation is lunacy.
- 331c8c71 5y agoThis means shooting any russian aircraft above ukranian soil I believe.
- jeremyjh 5y agoExactly.
- _ph_ 5y agoYes, that is why it wasn't done, despite all cruelties against Ukrainians. One could argue, that as long as Russian troups are only engaged over Ukraine it is something different, but I think it is wise not to push this so far. But the other side is: if NATO wanted, they could have a no-fly zone over Ukraine any time.
- jayski 5y agothis is exactly what Joe Biden said: a no-fly zone means American planes shooting down Russian planes.