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I am empathetic to your situation, but if you lived in Russia and paid taxes in Russia, you did support Putin. You also supported him just by living there, whic

I am empathetic to your situation, but if you lived in Russia and paid taxes in Russia, you did support Putin. You also supported him just by living there, which was a statement that Russia is a place worth living in. Also if you didn't protest, you did support him passively. The same can be said, probably to a lesser extent, about most of us living outside of Russia - if we bought things coming from Russia or didn't criticize Russia, we supported Putin in a similar way. Though it could be argued we, non-russian citizens don't have the responsibility for russian government's actions... I'm wondering if resigning from a russian citizenship can help with the sanctions against russians. Surely openly criticizing the war and/or Putin with some kind of stickers or t-shirts or maybe Ukrainian colors can alleviate contact with actual people. I think no one pretends sanctions are fair. But what's a better alternative?

johannes1234321 5y ago
> You also supported him just by living there, which was a statement that Russia is a place worth living in. Not that people necessarily have a choice. They need visa, working permits (qualification!), money to create a new live elsewhere and also probably have family or health related things keeping one in a place. > Also if you didn't protest, you did support him passively. In a totalitarian state demonstrating isn't as easy as in other places. You easily end up in jail. Of course it is true that a state can only exist while supported by the inhabitants, but it's not as easy as saying "leave or be loud in protest"
helixfelix 5y ago
Your comment made me do a double take. Surely an individual is not to blame for a countries injustices, imperialism, and war crimes? Otherwise large parts of the developed world would have to be abandoned immediately. We need to consider borders, immigration, work authorization, regulations, wealth, health, friends, family responsibilities, kids, partners and their own constraints - before being able to pass judgement. It's takes incredible privelege to propose that one can just pickup their bags and go wherever they want in the world.
evv555 5y ago
>The same can be said, probably to a lesser extent, about most of us living outside of Russia - if we bought things coming from Russia or didn't criticize Russia, we supported Putin in a similar way. Though it could be argued we, non-russian citizens don't have the responsibility for russian government's actions... If that's the threshold for responsibility then that's barely scratching the surface. Western banks have profited from the enabling and corruption of oligarchs by laundering their assets with impunity for decades. Corporations like Cisco had no problem doing technology transfers for surveillance technology that now makes opposing so dangerous. German politicians gutted their nuclear energy/energy security in the name of going green. European politicians have pushed an agenda of appeasement in the name of moral relativism and "stakeholder capitalism". This is a crescendo that has been building for decades at the benefit of Westerners and the expense of normal Eastern Bloc people.
- Etherlord87 5y ago
  So do you mean Europeans or Americans are responsible to a larger extent than Russians? I only compared "our" responsibility as lower, but still recognize it and don't intend to downplay it - actually I think I'm being downvoted because I dare to put some responsibility on OP, as if it was a popular idea that an individual means nothing and has no effect on the world... We need to grow up, we do have an effect and what happens in Ukraine just now should prove that avoiding it is worth the effort.
BizarreByte 5y ago
> I am empathetic to your situation, but if you lived in Russia and paid taxes in Russia, you did support Putin. You also supported him just by living there, which was a statement that Russia is a place worth living in. Also if you didn't protest, you did support him passively. If you're an American you don't get to criticize Russian citizens for this. It would be the very definition of glass houses and throwing stones. How many of your government's injustices and war crimes have you protested? And don't try to brush off my comment as "whataboutism", you're talking tough so back it up.
- Etherlord87 5y ago
  I'm not an American, but I don't see how an argument is valid or invalid based on who makes it.
  - ghtys 5y ago
    An argument can be biased, an American who never had to live under Putin's regime or in the social/economic context of Russia might not be able to understand that people don't choose to be born in such countries, or not see the wrongdoing of their own country.

johannes1234321 5y ago

> You also supported him just by living there, which was a statement that Russia is a place worth living in. Not that people necessarily have a choice. They need visa, working permits (qualification!), money to create a new live elsewhere and also probably have family or health related things keeping one in a place. > Also if you didn't protest, you did support him passively. In a totalitarian state demonstrating isn't as easy as in other places. You easily end up in jail. Of course it is true that a state can only exist while supported by the inhabitants, but it's not as easy as saying "leave or be loud in protest"

helixfelix 5y ago

Your comment made me do a double take. Surely an individual is not to blame for a countries injustices, imperialism, and war crimes? Otherwise large parts of the developed world would have to be abandoned immediately. We need to consider borders, immigration, work authorization, regulations, wealth, health, friends, family responsibilities, kids, partners and their own constraints - before being able to pass judgement. It's takes incredible privelege to propose that one can just pickup their bags and go wherever they want in the world.

evv555 5y ago

>The same can be said, probably to a lesser extent, about most of us living outside of Russia - if we bought things coming from Russia or didn't criticize Russia, we supported Putin in a similar way. Though it could be argued we, non-russian citizens don't have the responsibility for russian government's actions... If that's the threshold for responsibility then that's barely scratching the surface. Western banks have profited from the enabling and corruption of oligarchs by laundering their assets with impunity for decades. Corporations like Cisco had no problem doing technology transfers for surveillance technology that now makes opposing so dangerous. German politicians gutted their nuclear energy/energy security in the name of going green. European politicians have pushed an agenda of appeasement in the name of moral relativism and "stakeholder capitalism". This is a crescendo that has been building for decades at the benefit of Westerners and the expense of normal Eastern Bloc people.

Etherlord87 5y ago
So do you mean Europeans or Americans are responsible to a larger extent than Russians? I only compared "our" responsibility as lower, but still recognize it and don't intend to downplay it - actually I think I'm being downvoted because I dare to put some responsibility on OP, as if it was a popular idea that an individual means nothing and has no effect on the world... We need to grow up, we do have an effect and what happens in Ukraine just now should prove that avoiding it is worth the effort.

BizarreByte 5y ago

> I am empathetic to your situation, but if you lived in Russia and paid taxes in Russia, you did support Putin. You also supported him just by living there, which was a statement that Russia is a place worth living in. Also if you didn't protest, you did support him passively. If you're an American you don't get to criticize Russian citizens for this. It would be the very definition of glass houses and throwing stones. How many of your government's injustices and war crimes have you protested? And don't try to brush off my comment as "whataboutism", you're talking tough so back it up.

Etherlord87 5y ago
I'm not an American, but I don't see how an argument is valid or invalid based on who makes it.
- ghtys 5y ago
  An argument can be biased, an American who never had to live under Putin's regime or in the social/economic context of Russia might not be able to understand that people don't choose to be born in such countries, or not see the wrongdoing of their own country.