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> But I grew up mostly with American propoganda. I didn't know that the US had a long history of overthrowing governments in the Middle East and South America,
by SeanLuke 5y ago
> But I grew up mostly with American propoganda. I didn't know that the US had a long history of overthrowing governments in the Middle East and South America, and generally meddling in their affairs.
I'm sorry, but this is whataboutism in its full glory.
The US has a free press, and its unfortunate history of overthrowing or supporting governments was and is well documented by the press and by historians in the United States. This documentation and publication resulted in many public scandals, lawsuits, and public intrigue, particularly through the 1960s to 1980s when the US's activities in this regard were perhaps that their peak. The resulting history is taught in universities and in elementary schools across the USA.
Now, there are well-known political parties or other people with a vested interest in spinning things in their own way, as is the case in any country, but if you think the United States press is anything like the press in Russia, or that its public is anywhere as ignorant of the facts as the public in Russia and similar countries, or if you felt you were unaware of the US history in this regard while it was going on, then you perhaps led a sheltered life. But it wasn't for lack of trying on part of the US press.
- ignoramous 5y agoLook at my shit, even if as smelly, it is better documented than yours. > I'm sorry, but this is whataboutism in its full glory. Dismissing every argument with whataboutism seems to be flavour of the day, even when it is not whataboutism.
- SeanLuke 5y agoYou're welcome to your own opinions, and your own blithe dismissals, but you are not welcome to your own facts. I lived during most of the period discussed by the GP. Everything from the Bay of Pigs to supporting the Shah to Iran Contra to the invasion of Grenada was well covered and well criticized in the US press. And the US invasion of Iraq was highly criticized in the US press even as the US government was facing an uphill battle to convince the world that it was proper by brandishing fake bottles of poison at the UN. The US has done a lot of bad stuff. But claiming that the press just went along with it is historical revisionism, full stop.
- ignoramous 5y agoHaving "free" Press does not absolve US of its crimes. That's even ignoring the fact that the Press itself is a propaganda tool for the US military-industrial complex, while steeping in biases of its own. You're welcome to live in your own bubble of facts.
- bigfudge 5y agoThere’s merit on both sides here. I think the key is that OP was making a personal Point about their own reflection. However well documented in academic texts or small newspapers thinking about how the US has meddled and more is not mainstream in the US, especially on the centre right. 911 did something similar for a number of my friends too - they started looking at some of that history in more detail, and it became important in their decision making.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- OrlandoHakim 5y ago[Deleted]
- rini17 5y agoPutin talks about 15000 civilian victims in Donbas.. yet there are no names whatsoever? Nobody tried to submit the case to international institutions? Such questions did not arise in your research?
- OrlandoHakim 5y agoI can’t speak to exact numbers but it isn’t just Putin making those claims. Many Russian-speaking Ukrainians have made similar claims.
- OrlandoHakim 5y ago[flagged]