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but do we all agree that the World history would be different if the ordinary german people would oppose the concentration camps and genocide? The ordinary russ

but do we all agree that the World history would be different if the ordinary german people would oppose the concentration camps and genocide? The ordinary russian people are IMO in the same position right now. They. Have. To stop. Putin!

hutzlibu 5y ago
So you would have been in favor of punishing german jews like Einstein, for getting out and not staying to change the system from within?
- pelasaco 5y ago
  If he was supportive to Adolf H. until the point that it wasn't comfortable for him anymore? Absolutely, but that was never the case. I have/had a lot of friends in the IT industry from Russia. You absolutely couldn't engage in any political discussion without them exercise their whataboutism.
  - Etherlord87 5y ago
    We live in beautiful times. We can ask everyone, e.g. the OP, if he can give some links to his opinions here on HN or on twitter or elsewhere - where he criticized russian government for attacking Ukraine. Surely some russians did it, but most sadly didn't.
    - pelasaco 5y ago
      Exactly. They had a lot of chance to do it, while the Putin monster wasn't as powerful as today. Examples: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissenters%27_March https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissenters%27_March - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pussy_Riot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pussy_Riot
SXX 5y ago
Warning: I do not support this war in any way. Or Putin, or his propoganda and cronies. And I also supported opposition in Russia financially as much as I could afford. And I publicly codemned this war. Yet here is the problem: western countries allowed Putins regime to exist and grow in it's power for 15+ years and no one cared until this terrible war started. But before there been a lot of other events. No one gave a damn when Putins olygarchs got rich and moved hundreds of billions of dollars out of Russia. They owned tons of real estate abroad, their children study abroad and most of their families moved to live abroad. Around 2012 mass protests in Russia was supressed and a lot of people landed in prison. Some opposition leaders were killed. Then Russia invaded Ukraine and annexied Crimea. Again there been little resistence from EU and US who supposedly have to guarantee sovereignty to Ukraine after this country gave up nuclear weapons. When Navalny was poisoned and then imprisoned. Again no one really cared.
- pelasaco 5y ago
  > Around 2012 mass protests in Russia was supressed and a lot of people landed in prison. Some opposition leaders were killed. "Maximum penalties were fines of several thousand rubles or imposed labor of up to 200 hours" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932013_Russian_protests#Repression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932013_Russian_prot... That's how it works, but can he incarcerate millions of people? We have good examples of non-violent protests that won against such regimes: We did in GDR. We went to te streets. The machine guns were mounted on the top of every single train station. We went to the streets anyway. Not with stones, but candle lights. We have examples as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otpor#Strategy_and_tactics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otpor#Strategy_and_tactics We have literature about it https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/nonviolent-resistance-and-prevention-of-mass-killings-perkoski-chenoweth-2018-icnc.pdf https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/... We have as well examples of violent protests through the History that worked (I don't support it, but we cannot deny their efficiency) https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-violent-protests-change-politics https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-violent-protests-...
  - SXX 5y ago

hutzlibu 5y ago

So you would have been in favor of punishing german jews like Einstein, for getting out and not staying to change the system from within?

pelasaco 5y ago
If he was supportive to Adolf H. until the point that it wasn't comfortable for him anymore? Absolutely, but that was never the case. I have/had a lot of friends in the IT industry from Russia. You absolutely couldn't engage in any political discussion without them exercise their whataboutism.
- Etherlord87 5y ago
  We live in beautiful times. We can ask everyone, e.g. the OP, if he can give some links to his opinions here on HN or on twitter or elsewhere - where he criticized russian government for attacking Ukraine. Surely some russians did it, but most sadly didn't.
  - pelasaco 5y ago
    Exactly. They had a lot of chance to do it, while the Putin monster wasn't as powerful as today. Examples: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissenters%27_March https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissenters%27_March - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pussy_Riot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pussy_Riot

SXX 5y ago

Warning: I do not support this war in any way. Or Putin, or his propoganda and cronies. And I also supported opposition in Russia financially as much as I could afford. And I publicly codemned this war. Yet here is the problem: western countries allowed Putins regime to exist and grow in it's power for 15+ years and no one cared until this terrible war started. But before there been a lot of other events. No one gave a damn when Putins olygarchs got rich and moved hundreds of billions of dollars out of Russia. They owned tons of real estate abroad, their children study abroad and most of their families moved to live abroad. Around 2012 mass protests in Russia was supressed and a lot of people landed in prison. Some opposition leaders were killed. Then Russia invaded Ukraine and annexied Crimea. Again there been little resistence from EU and US who supposedly have to guarantee sovereignty to Ukraine after this country gave up nuclear weapons. When Navalny was poisoned and then imprisoned. Again no one really cared.

pelasaco 5y ago
> Around 2012 mass protests in Russia was supressed and a lot of people landed in prison. Some opposition leaders were killed. "Maximum penalties were fines of several thousand rubles or imposed labor of up to 200 hours" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932013_Russian_protests#Repression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932013_Russian_prot... That's how it works, but can he incarcerate millions of people? We have good examples of non-violent protests that won against such regimes: We did in GDR. We went to te streets. The machine guns were mounted on the top of every single train station. We went to the streets anyway. Not with stones, but candle lights. We have examples as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otpor#Strategy_and_tactics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otpor#Strategy_and_tactics We have literature about it https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/nonviolent-resistance-and-prevention-of-mass-killings-perkoski-chenoweth-2018-icnc.pdf https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/... We have as well examples of violent protests through the History that worked (I don't support it, but we cannot deny their efficiency) https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-violent-protests-change-politics https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-violent-protests-...
- SXX 5y ago