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this is a silly caricature. historically, a majority of Americans supported both the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq when they started, and public opinion did not

this is a silly caricature. historically, a majority of Americans supported both the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq when they started, and public opinion did not turn against them for several years, and even then it was not an overwhelming majority. Obama campaigned on the folly of those wars but chose to stay involved because it was believed by many that some level of success could yet be achieved for the people in those countries, who were in many cases partnering with the US. Nevertheless, the eventual unpopularity of those wars did in fact lead to "regime change" in the US, because the US is a (somewhat) functioning democracy. Americans are in fact at this very moment preventing the US from engaging in this war in Ukraine.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
While Obama was talking out of one side of his mouth regarding tire Iraq, he was starting a bombing campaign in Syria and Libya with the other
mumblemumble 5y ago
> Americans are in fact at this very moment preventing the US from engaging in this war in Ukraine. The US getting more directly involved in Ukraine was never a likely outcome, for reasons that have nothing to do with American public opinion. Throughout the Cold War, both the USA and the USSR made a policy of never directly engaging in conflict on the same soil, because the risk of it escalating into a nuclear war was just too great. Instead, they would fight proxy wars where at most one country was a direct combatant, and the other country merely provided material support to an ally. We can expect the war in Ukraine to continue following the same playbook, and for the same reason. And other NATO countries will also avoid sending their own troops into Ukraine for fear of creating a slippery slope that pulls NATO's nuclear powers into the war.
- ledauphin 5y ago
  this is all very true, but does not negate what i said. the American public does not want to risk nuclear war.
  - mumblemumble 5y ago
    Perhaps you wanted to use a different choice of words? "Prevent" implies a much more direct cause and effect relationship than we can reasonably infer in this case.
ajsnigrutin 5y ago
And a majority of russians support the war now... some because they support putin, some because they want putin to protect the russian minorities in ukraine, and a lot of them because of the propaganda in russia. Yes, some people don't want that, and articles like this one now is a part of anti-russian propaganda. America had its own share of propaganda, that brought popular support for those wars... some even very fake one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony America also had hippies and other anti-war groups, so the situation is not that much different.

s1artibartfast 5y ago

While Obama was talking out of one side of his mouth regarding tire Iraq, he was starting a bombing campaign in Syria and Libya with the other

mumblemumble 5y ago

> Americans are in fact at this very moment preventing the US from engaging in this war in Ukraine. The US getting more directly involved in Ukraine was never a likely outcome, for reasons that have nothing to do with American public opinion. Throughout the Cold War, both the USA and the USSR made a policy of never directly engaging in conflict on the same soil, because the risk of it escalating into a nuclear war was just too great. Instead, they would fight proxy wars where at most one country was a direct combatant, and the other country merely provided material support to an ally. We can expect the war in Ukraine to continue following the same playbook, and for the same reason. And other NATO countries will also avoid sending their own troops into Ukraine for fear of creating a slippery slope that pulls NATO's nuclear powers into the war.

ledauphin 5y ago
this is all very true, but does not negate what i said. the American public does not want to risk nuclear war.
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  Perhaps you wanted to use a different choice of words? "Prevent" implies a much more direct cause and effect relationship than we can reasonably infer in this case.

ajsnigrutin 5y ago

And a majority of russians support the war now... some because they support putin, some because they want putin to protect the russian minorities in ukraine, and a lot of them because of the propaganda in russia. Yes, some people don't want that, and articles like this one now is a part of anti-russian propaganda. America had its own share of propaganda, that brought popular support for those wars... some even very fake one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony America also had hippies and other anti-war groups, so the situation is not that much different.