5 ms·

Putin was shaken up by Euromaidan and been preparing so it doesn't happen to him ever since. Ukraine 2014 != Russia 2022. Back then Ukraine even had free speech

Putin was shaken up by Euromaidan and been preparing so it doesn't happen to him ever since. Ukraine 2014 != Russia 2022. Back then Ukraine even had free speech.

drakonka 5y ago
I apologize in advance for some emotion that'll come out in the rest of this comment, but I feel the need to say it. I wish Russian people would then stop telling me all about how most Russians are against Putin and hate him, and then act completely helpless at the thought of doing anything about it. They are just empty words, then, because they're followed by plenty of excuses for inaction. My grandfather is spending another war hiding from bombs in a basement, but Russian people get to catch trains to Finland while telling us platitudes about how "most" of them are _so_ against Putin.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  And that's the problem right there: most Russians don't hate him. They've been subjected to a decades long barrage of obligatory Putin worship and even today his support is higher than that of the American president. They don't speak any other language than Russian and don't have access to other news sources. This is a real problem, because (1) it all but ensures that this war will last much longer than it should (it shouldn't have started to begin with) and (2) that Russia needs some kind of victory to be able to back out in order to sustain the myth. No such victory can be defined. This makes for a very bleak future. Meanwhile the West stands by wringing their hands and crying because 'there isn't anything they can do', when in reality they are just scared. The best bet right now would be for some Russian faction near the seat of power to get rid of Putin once and for all. Of course the instability that would generate would be at least as dangerous as this war, if not more dangerous but it would also have the potential to improve things. I won't say anything about your grandfather because anything I could say would sound meaningless.
  - jquery 5y ago
    I’d love to know what you think the West can do, except that we are scared? I think the West is doing absolutely the right thing. This is a disaster for Putin but you know what could turn it around for him? If we give him an excuse to escalate the war and unite the Russian people against the West. EDIT: those are some good ideas. I definitely think we need to turn up the sanctions, so far Putin seems on the backfoot but he has increased the shelling of civilians, even agreed-upon evacuation points which is just straight up evil.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Cut off Russian gas and oil completely for starters, go after all Russian investments in the West, refuse to do business with any company in Russia, no more boats in and out of Russia, no more cargo, refuse to do business with companies from other countries that continue to do business in Russia, gift major arms and training to Ukraine on the assumption that this war isn't going to be over in a week. Putin will see his reasons for escalation wherever he wants, whatever will suit him, if that becomes the touchstone then we are already way across the line regardless of our fears. After all, we exist.
- therusskiy 5y ago
  it may be selfish, but I don't want to sit in prison and be beaten by police. If you are against Putin, why haven't you supported Russians in 2019 when they took to streets against him? Came to our country with Molotovs? Or was it too far away from you? Everybody was just "concerned" by it and now you and me are paying the pric, because since then it's even harder for us to organize and do anything about this crazy shithead. > Catching trains to Finland When rumors about borders closing started to appear me and my GF had to grab clothes and medicine, enough to fit into baggage, book ANYTHING that flies from Russia within the next day. I had to leave all my savings that I've been saving up for years (banks stopped giving money), I had to leave a newly bought apartment, I had to leave my parents and grandparents that I may never see again.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Compared to dying because of a high explosive bomb landing in the middle of your apartment building I think you got the better deal. Keep in mind that just having choices is a luxury. Oh, and your dictator, your primary responsibility. Or do you blame the West for Putin?
    - therusskiy 5y ago
      It's definitely a better deal than those 300+ civilians and many more military whose lifes were lost, I am not gonna bloody argue about that. And yet I don't like when people discount broken lifes of Russians who had to flee their country leaving everything behind. Both Ukranians and Russians are refugees in this case. One difference they may not experience is being afraid of passing strangers in a country they fled to. So much suffering... Everything because of one crazy guy. As far as I've heard even most of Putin's generals were shocked by his decision to invade. I hope one of them can muster courage and get close enough...
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        The only people that can do something about it right this moment are all in Russia and as long as they don't the carnage will continue (in your name, no less). Putin's generals have over the years been carefully winnowed down to a bunch of spineless bastards, it's clear that near a dictator of such power you will not find any credible competition, those are either in jail or six feet under. Interesting side effect, that also means that the really competent people have left or have been pensioned off. And yet, those that are left are the only people with a credible shot at this. And the world - and their country - would likely love them for it, assuming they would live. Let's see which Russian fat cat grows a pair first. I think the touchstone will be when Putin gives the orders to deploy a nuke.
- jquery 5y ago
  I am with you. If anything I want to turn up the sanctions even more, as I see Putin ramping up the war crimes he’s committing in Ukraine out of frustration at the resistance there.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    I fully expect him to destroy it completely if he can't seize it and I am scared shitless of what could very well be the first deployment of nuclear weapons on the European continent, the nuking of Kyiv. I would definitely not put it past Putin and I hope that before we get to that that there will be a palace revolt in Russia because if they just keep following orders there all bets are quite literally off.

Putin was shaken up by Euromaidan and been preparing so it doesn't happen to him ever since. Ukraine 2014 != Russia 2022. Back then Ukraine even had free speech.

drakonka 5y ago

I apologize in advance for some emotion that'll come out in the rest of this comment, but I feel the need to say it. I wish Russian people would then stop telling me all about how most Russians are against Putin and hate him, and then act completely helpless at the thought of doing anything about it. They are just empty words, then, because they're followed by plenty of excuses for inaction. My grandfather is spending another war hiding from bombs in a basement, but Russian people get to catch trains to Finland while telling us platitudes about how "most" of them are _so_ against Putin.

jacquesm 5y ago
And that's the problem right there: most Russians don't hate him. They've been subjected to a decades long barrage of obligatory Putin worship and even today his support is higher than that of the American president. They don't speak any other language than Russian and don't have access to other news sources. This is a real problem, because (1) it all but ensures that this war will last much longer than it should (it shouldn't have started to begin with) and (2) that Russia needs some kind of victory to be able to back out in order to sustain the myth. No such victory can be defined. This makes for a very bleak future. Meanwhile the West stands by wringing their hands and crying because 'there isn't anything they can do', when in reality they are just scared. The best bet right now would be for some Russian faction near the seat of power to get rid of Putin once and for all. Of course the instability that would generate would be at least as dangerous as this war, if not more dangerous but it would also have the potential to improve things. I won't say anything about your grandfather because anything I could say would sound meaningless.
- jquery 5y ago
  I’d love to know what you think the West can do, except that we are scared? I think the West is doing absolutely the right thing. This is a disaster for Putin but you know what could turn it around for him? If we give him an excuse to escalate the war and unite the Russian people against the West. EDIT: those are some good ideas. I definitely think we need to turn up the sanctions, so far Putin seems on the backfoot but he has increased the shelling of civilians, even agreed-upon evacuation points which is just straight up evil.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Cut off Russian gas and oil completely for starters, go after all Russian investments in the West, refuse to do business with any company in Russia, no more boats in and out of Russia, no more cargo, refuse to do business with companies from other countries that continue to do business in Russia, gift major arms and training to Ukraine on the assumption that this war isn't going to be over in a week. Putin will see his reasons for escalation wherever he wants, whatever will suit him, if that becomes the touchstone then we are already way across the line regardless of our fears. After all, we exist.
therusskiy 5y ago
it may be selfish, but I don't want to sit in prison and be beaten by police. If you are against Putin, why haven't you supported Russians in 2019 when they took to streets against him? Came to our country with Molotovs? Or was it too far away from you? Everybody was just "concerned" by it and now you and me are paying the pric, because since then it's even harder for us to organize and do anything about this crazy shithead. > Catching trains to Finland When rumors about borders closing started to appear me and my GF had to grab clothes and medicine, enough to fit into baggage, book ANYTHING that flies from Russia within the next day. I had to leave all my savings that I've been saving up for years (banks stopped giving money), I had to leave a newly bought apartment, I had to leave my parents and grandparents that I may never see again.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Compared to dying because of a high explosive bomb landing in the middle of your apartment building I think you got the better deal. Keep in mind that just having choices is a luxury. Oh, and your dictator, your primary responsibility. Or do you blame the West for Putin?
  - therusskiy 5y ago
    It's definitely a better deal than those 300+ civilians and many more military whose lifes were lost, I am not gonna bloody argue about that. And yet I don't like when people discount broken lifes of Russians who had to flee their country leaving everything behind. Both Ukranians and Russians are refugees in this case. One difference they may not experience is being afraid of passing strangers in a country they fled to. So much suffering... Everything because of one crazy guy. As far as I've heard even most of Putin's generals were shocked by his decision to invade. I hope one of them can muster courage and get close enough...
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      The only people that can do something about it right this moment are all in Russia and as long as they don't the carnage will continue (in your name, no less). Putin's generals have over the years been carefully winnowed down to a bunch of spineless bastards, it's clear that near a dictator of such power you will not find any credible competition, those are either in jail or six feet under. Interesting side effect, that also means that the really competent people have left or have been pensioned off. And yet, those that are left are the only people with a credible shot at this. And the world - and their country - would likely love them for it, assuming they would live. Let's see which Russian fat cat grows a pair first. I think the touchstone will be when Putin gives the orders to deploy a nuke.
jquery 5y ago
I am with you. If anything I want to turn up the sanctions even more, as I see Putin ramping up the war crimes he’s committing in Ukraine out of frustration at the resistance there.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  I fully expect him to destroy it completely if he can't seize it and I am scared shitless of what could very well be the first deployment of nuclear weapons on the European continent, the nuking of Kyiv. I would definitely not put it past Putin and I hope that before we get to that that there will be a palace revolt in Russia because if they just keep following orders there all bets are quite literally off.