6 ms·

Didn't see any revolting Americans when the Iraq War was initiated.

by lenkite 5y ago

formvoltron 5y ago
We had big protests. They were not big enough unfortunately.
forty 5y ago
What sanctions against the American economy following Iraq war, would have pushed Americans to revolt?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
School-Cotton 5y ago
Sanctions against the US for the Iraq war would have been totally legitimate. What exactly is your point?
- lowkey 5y ago
  That the US is arguably the most powerful nation in the world and that sanctions by smaller economies vs empires like the US are like Palistinian children throwing rocks at Israeli tanks. It is easy to claim that sanctions against the US would have been legitimate when it is clear to most that they would have had little to no meaningful impact.
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    This was true during the first iraq war... and even then barely. Now, just china imposing sanctions, would seriously fuck with US economy. Add on EU to that, and the situation would be pretty bad for americans.
- filomeno 5y ago
  The point is that there were no sanctions, and there won't be the next time the US decides to invade another country. So punishing Russia this time gives the US an unfair advantage, and that's not good for anyone outside the US.
  - jjcc 5y ago
    It's more than that. There are other impact: * There are a lot of Indians openly support Putin. I guess there is an excuse to justify the invasion because Russia is not the first one doing that. * Inside China there are a lot of debate. Russians invasion obviously breaks the international law. But if US did the same thing in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria ...(Let's not debate if US conducted good invasion to avoid to going to rabbit hole), also indirectly caused humanity disaster and refugees, why put Russia in a different standard? Not making judgement of which is correct or wrong, just saying it's difficult to convince certain population if different standards were applied.
    - bigfudge 5y ago
      India has a similarly authoritarian nationalist govt and looks a lot like Russia 20 years ago. I am very nervous about the direction India is heading.
tartoran 5y ago
The US is the country of protests, there were plenty of protests against that war. I’ve been to a few myself.
- filomeno 5y ago
  Oh, it's good to know that. Maybe Russia could get away with the invasion without sanctions just letting his people protest against the war. No matter if the outcome of the war is the same, or if Putin is elected again (as happened with George W. Bush in the US).
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    Putin tried to run the GWB playbook with his invasion but he got impatient. He didn't have a 9/11 handed to him like GWB did. Putin's excuse is too flimsy about a Nazi genocide against Russians. There wouldn't be any sanctions whatsoever against Putin if he had planes flying into a building in Moscow.
    - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
      Putin is playing the kosovo card. An area with a minority, self declared independence, minority and majority fighting every now and then, and then the "outside player" deciding to attack the whole country to "protect the minority". For us in the balkans, america has always been a bigger threat to peace (and still is), especially after having plane fly above our roofs to bomb a country 200miles away, and not that long ago, we were still a same country.
      - bigfudge 5y ago
        His mistake is to mix up these plays. If he had stuck to that balkans play it would all be a lot harder to argue with from a western perspective. We just don’t know enough t about Eastern European politics/beefs. But he’s also talked about Russian security and nato expansion and denazification which is so stupid as to make a mockery of any sensible rationale.
- 5y ago
philliphaydon 5y ago
If Iraq happened today I think more people would be upset and protest. In 2001 I don't even think I had a cellphone, we didnt have social media like we do now, the only source of news was the News Paper and TV. If it happened now we would be blastered on twitter with videos / photos of it happening in real time like we are know. Much more aware of war crimes happening. We can't change what happened in the past but I would like to think we can change the future, and Iraq doesn't happen again. (I was living in NZ at the time still at school when 9 11 happened)
- lenkite 5y ago
  I remember getting completely shut down by my American friends when I told them about atrocities committed by US soldiers and that Saddam had no nuclear weapons. It was like talking to a wall at the time. You don't understand - we are fighting this war for the world's safety, blah-blah. Maybe the next US war will be different ? I doubt it. US propaganda makes Russian propaganda look like amateur hour. Stuff that doesn't fit the mainstream narrative will be shutdown hard, while stuff that fits it will be amplified continuously.
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    Yep, and EU is no better... they even banned RT... imagine banning CNN when USA attacked afghanistan. But this is the start of the war, and there is A LOT of propaganda everywhere... everyone in the west is trying to show russia as losing everywhere, while they're conquering basically everything, on the other hand, they say that russians have destroyed whole cities, and only two short clips of the same building are showed, and now fearmongering like this reuters article. I live in the balkans, and (obviously) I'm against any kind of war... but what putin is doing is no different than americans choosing a random middle eastern country (or even yugoslavia in 1999), and destroying the fuck out of it... but somehow it's different when americans do it.
    - NicoJuicy 5y ago
      Eg.Yugoslavia's issues were internal. Ps. A lot of people left RT because of it's propaganda and it's idiocracies even before the ban.
pelasaco 5y ago
was Iraq a pacifist country? BTW Ukraine is invaded since 2014, so the War is happening since 2014. Putin just brought it to a larger scale after to believe that EU and USA were weaker after pandemics and Afghanistan.
traceroute66 5y ago
Americans revolting no, but I'm sure the Iraqis would have something to say about revolting Americans. ;-)
SeanLuke 5y ago
Then you didn't look very hard.
nostrademons 5y ago
There were plenty of protests - I remember seeing one walk by (including most of the faculty) in my university cafeteria at the time.
goodpoint 5y ago
> Didn't see any revolting Americans when the Iraq War was initiated. Evidently you didn't want to see.
faeriechangling 5y ago
While the protests to a large extent took place outside of America, the Feb 15, 2003 protest against the Iraq War was the largest protest ever at the time. The protests were certainly more enthusiastic and open than what we see in Russia, you can speculate on the reasons why.
pvaldes 5y ago
I remember massive protests in Europe at least. --Largest ever-- anti-war rally that go straight to the Guinness book of records. Apart of breaking a new world record in number of people participating, they were a total lose of time. All the opposition to a regime gathering together in a street, so can be conveniently netted and arrested like a school of fishes, is just making the life much easier for dictatorships

Didn't see any revolting Americans when the Iraq War was initiated.

formvoltron 5y ago

We had big protests. They were not big enough unfortunately.

forty 5y ago

What sanctions against the American economy following Iraq war, would have pushed Americans to revolt?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

School-Cotton 5y ago

Sanctions against the US for the Iraq war would have been totally legitimate. What exactly is your point?

lowkey 5y ago
That the US is arguably the most powerful nation in the world and that sanctions by smaller economies vs empires like the US are like Palistinian children throwing rocks at Israeli tanks. It is easy to claim that sanctions against the US would have been legitimate when it is clear to most that they would have had little to no meaningful impact.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  This was true during the first iraq war... and even then barely. Now, just china imposing sanctions, would seriously fuck with US economy. Add on EU to that, and the situation would be pretty bad for americans.
filomeno 5y ago
The point is that there were no sanctions, and there won't be the next time the US decides to invade another country. So punishing Russia this time gives the US an unfair advantage, and that's not good for anyone outside the US.
- jjcc 5y ago
  It's more than that. There are other impact: * There are a lot of Indians openly support Putin. I guess there is an excuse to justify the invasion because Russia is not the first one doing that. * Inside China there are a lot of debate. Russians invasion obviously breaks the international law. But if US did the same thing in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria ...(Let's not debate if US conducted good invasion to avoid to going to rabbit hole), also indirectly caused humanity disaster and refugees, why put Russia in a different standard? Not making judgement of which is correct or wrong, just saying it's difficult to convince certain population if different standards were applied.
  - bigfudge 5y ago
    India has a similarly authoritarian nationalist govt and looks a lot like Russia 20 years ago. I am very nervous about the direction India is heading.

tartoran 5y ago

The US is the country of protests, there were plenty of protests against that war. I’ve been to a few myself.

filomeno 5y ago
Oh, it's good to know that. Maybe Russia could get away with the invasion without sanctions just letting his people protest against the war. No matter if the outcome of the war is the same, or if Putin is elected again (as happened with George W. Bush in the US).
- ModernMech 5y ago
  Putin tried to run the GWB playbook with his invasion but he got impatient. He didn't have a 9/11 handed to him like GWB did. Putin's excuse is too flimsy about a Nazi genocide against Russians. There wouldn't be any sanctions whatsoever against Putin if he had planes flying into a building in Moscow.
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    Putin is playing the kosovo card. An area with a minority, self declared independence, minority and majority fighting every now and then, and then the "outside player" deciding to attack the whole country to "protect the minority". For us in the balkans, america has always been a bigger threat to peace (and still is), especially after having plane fly above our roofs to bomb a country 200miles away, and not that long ago, we were still a same country.
    - bigfudge 5y ago
      His mistake is to mix up these plays. If he had stuck to that balkans play it would all be a lot harder to argue with from a western perspective. We just don’t know enough t about Eastern European politics/beefs. But he’s also talked about Russian security and nato expansion and denazification which is so stupid as to make a mockery of any sensible rationale.
5y ago

philliphaydon 5y ago

If Iraq happened today I think more people would be upset and protest. In 2001 I don't even think I had a cellphone, we didnt have social media like we do now, the only source of news was the News Paper and TV. If it happened now we would be blastered on twitter with videos / photos of it happening in real time like we are know. Much more aware of war crimes happening. We can't change what happened in the past but I would like to think we can change the future, and Iraq doesn't happen again. (I was living in NZ at the time still at school when 9 11 happened)

lenkite 5y ago
I remember getting completely shut down by my American friends when I told them about atrocities committed by US soldiers and that Saddam had no nuclear weapons. It was like talking to a wall at the time. You don't understand - we are fighting this war for the world's safety, blah-blah. Maybe the next US war will be different ? I doubt it. US propaganda makes Russian propaganda look like amateur hour. Stuff that doesn't fit the mainstream narrative will be shutdown hard, while stuff that fits it will be amplified continuously.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  Yep, and EU is no better... they even banned RT... imagine banning CNN when USA attacked afghanistan. But this is the start of the war, and there is A LOT of propaganda everywhere... everyone in the west is trying to show russia as losing everywhere, while they're conquering basically everything, on the other hand, they say that russians have destroyed whole cities, and only two short clips of the same building are showed, and now fearmongering like this reuters article. I live in the balkans, and (obviously) I'm against any kind of war... but what putin is doing is no different than americans choosing a random middle eastern country (or even yugoslavia in 1999), and destroying the fuck out of it... but somehow it's different when americans do it.
  - NicoJuicy 5y ago
    Eg.Yugoslavia's issues were internal. Ps. A lot of people left RT because of it's propaganda and it's idiocracies even before the ban.

pelasaco 5y ago

was Iraq a pacifist country? BTW Ukraine is invaded since 2014, so the War is happening since 2014. Putin just brought it to a larger scale after to believe that EU and USA were weaker after pandemics and Afghanistan.

traceroute66 5y ago

Americans revolting no, but I'm sure the Iraqis would have something to say about revolting Americans. ;-)

SeanLuke 5y ago

Then you didn't look very hard.

nostrademons 5y ago

There were plenty of protests - I remember seeing one walk by (including most of the faculty) in my university cafeteria at the time.

goodpoint 5y ago

> Didn't see any revolting Americans when the Iraq War was initiated. Evidently you didn't want to see.

faeriechangling 5y ago

While the protests to a large extent took place outside of America, the Feb 15, 2003 protest against the Iraq War was the largest protest ever at the time. The protests were certainly more enthusiastic and open than what we see in Russia, you can speculate on the reasons why.

pvaldes 5y ago

I remember massive protests in Europe at least. --Largest ever-- anti-war rally that go straight to the Guinness book of records. Apart of breaking a new world record in number of people participating, they were a total lose of time. All the opposition to a regime gathering together in a street, so can be conveniently netted and arrested like a school of fishes, is just making the life much easier for dictatorships