5 ms·

what's going to happen with so many countries / companies cutting Russia off is that it's going to play into Putin's narrative that Russia is surrounded by enem

what's going to happen with so many countries / companies cutting Russia off is that it's going to play into Putin's narrative that Russia is surrounded by enemies. Imagine you are a neutral teenager who never cared about politics, then Playstation takes all your games, you don't have access to any of the media sources that can explain the situation (they are all banned now), you can only hear what government tells you.

yoavm 5y ago
Repeating the parent comment - What's the option, though? What better things can we do to help the > 1,000,000 Ukrainian refugees, and all the other millions that are currently being bombed by Russia? Putin _is_ getting his power from the Russian people. It's unfortunate they believe his lies, but they do, and that's what makes him strong.
- therusskiy 5y ago
  to be honest, I don't know, that is the reason I left, I have no hope and don't know how to change things. What could help is all these companies that are blocking Russians sending information to Russians about this war and about Putin's actions. If all Russians on Google, Playstation and etc saw more information it would help get through the blockade. Companies haven't been doing it because it requires more effort and risk getting blocked by Russia. By cutting these people off you are turning these people into Putin supporters. It's so much easier to just cut off Russians than actually trying to solve the problem.
  - bitcharmer 5y ago
  - yoavm 5y ago
    I understand that you are in a difficult position, but western companies using their power to send information to Russians is essentially the same as leaving Russia completely. Do you really have any doubt it would not even take a few hours before they're blocked by Russia? We're all just fast-forwarding this and leaving Russia. Maybe it will turn people into Putin supporters, and maybe, hopefully, with time, it will push them to revolt.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- pydry 5y ago
  Negotiate a truce with Putin that involved decoupling NATO from Ukraine and devolve centralized power to Ukrainian states.
  - ajross 5y ago
    A settlement like that is what ended hostilities in 2014, and yet he's back for more. What happens when he comes for the rest of Ukraine in another 8 years, or Moldova? Or Finland. What then? Negotiated peace only works if it works, and it clearly doesn't with Putin. We tried your suggestion already and it failed.
    - pydry 5y ago
      Except hostilities werent ended in 2014 and the Ukrainian government was pretty explicit that they didnt like the minsk protocol and didnt particularly feel obliged to adhere to it. So they didnt and the war continued for another 8 years. The point is we DIDNT try adhering to minsk, zelensky decided he 100% wanted to be NATO rather than neutral and NOW look where we are. A bit of decentralization, some restored Russian language rights and a promise for NATO to back off would ALL have been easier. >What happens when he comes for the rest of Ukraine in another 8 years, or Moldova? How exactly does neutral make that happen? What happens when NATO tries to do to Russia what it did to Libya?
  - ericmay 5y ago
    So only some countries have the right to decide their international affairs? Might as well make the same argument for Germany or France. Putin is mad so therefore decouple these countries from NATO. Ya know The Us feels very threatened by Belarus. They should have to withdraw from their alliance from Russia and decouple. Otherwise we’ll invade and neutralize it ourselves.
    - pydry 5y ago
      >So only some countries have the right to decide their international affairs? Should Russia schedule a delivery of nuclear weapons to Cuba for this week or next? >Ya know The Us feels very threatened by Belarus. They should have to withdraw from their alliance from Russia and decouple Is that because of its close proximity to Maine? I guess it's closer than Iraq...
giantrobot 5y ago
Any actions taken by "the West" will be turned into propaganda inside Russia. Economic sanctions are the only action that won't automatically lead to nuclear war or embolden Putin to try to retake all the USSR's former vassal states. Russia invaded a neighboring country and is racking up the war crimes against civilians there. A Russian teenager unable to play XBox is maybe slightly less important than the indiscriminate shelling of hospitals and nuclear power plants.
- foxfluff 5y ago
  > A Russian teenager unable to play XBox is maybe slightly less important than the indiscriminate shelling of hospitals and nuclear power plants. And straight up shooting civilians on the street with assault rifles... this is literally happening in Ukraine :(
ericmay 5y ago
If the pervasive narrative is that Russia is surrounded by enemies (hence invading Ukraine) anyway then why does it matter? This narrative has been around for awhile, not recently. And the sanctions also result in oligarchs losing their assets. Want to be an ass and disconnect from the west? Fine. But you’re not taking your toys. They can be in prison together with the people they constantly barrage with these narratives. If sanctions don’t work and not sanctioning doesn’t work, might as well sanction and be done with it.

yoavm 5y ago

Repeating the parent comment - What's the option, though? What better things can we do to help the > 1,000,000 Ukrainian refugees, and all the other millions that are currently being bombed by Russia? Putin _is_ getting his power from the Russian people. It's unfortunate they believe his lies, but they do, and that's what makes him strong.

therusskiy 5y ago
to be honest, I don't know, that is the reason I left, I have no hope and don't know how to change things. What could help is all these companies that are blocking Russians sending information to Russians about this war and about Putin's actions. If all Russians on Google, Playstation and etc saw more information it would help get through the blockade. Companies haven't been doing it because it requires more effort and risk getting blocked by Russia. By cutting these people off you are turning these people into Putin supporters. It's so much easier to just cut off Russians than actually trying to solve the problem.
- bitcharmer 5y ago
- yoavm 5y ago
  I understand that you are in a difficult position, but western companies using their power to send information to Russians is essentially the same as leaving Russia completely. Do you really have any doubt it would not even take a few hours before they're blocked by Russia? We're all just fast-forwarding this and leaving Russia. Maybe it will turn people into Putin supporters, and maybe, hopefully, with time, it will push them to revolt.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
pydry 5y ago
Negotiate a truce with Putin that involved decoupling NATO from Ukraine and devolve centralized power to Ukrainian states.
- ajross 5y ago
  A settlement like that is what ended hostilities in 2014, and yet he's back for more. What happens when he comes for the rest of Ukraine in another 8 years, or Moldova? Or Finland. What then? Negotiated peace only works if it works, and it clearly doesn't with Putin. We tried your suggestion already and it failed.
  - pydry 5y ago
    Except hostilities werent ended in 2014 and the Ukrainian government was pretty explicit that they didnt like the minsk protocol and didnt particularly feel obliged to adhere to it. So they didnt and the war continued for another 8 years. The point is we DIDNT try adhering to minsk, zelensky decided he 100% wanted to be NATO rather than neutral and NOW look where we are. A bit of decentralization, some restored Russian language rights and a promise for NATO to back off would ALL have been easier. >What happens when he comes for the rest of Ukraine in another 8 years, or Moldova? How exactly does neutral make that happen? What happens when NATO tries to do to Russia what it did to Libya?
- ericmay 5y ago
  So only some countries have the right to decide their international affairs? Might as well make the same argument for Germany or France. Putin is mad so therefore decouple these countries from NATO. Ya know The Us feels very threatened by Belarus. They should have to withdraw from their alliance from Russia and decouple. Otherwise we’ll invade and neutralize it ourselves.
  - pydry 5y ago
    >So only some countries have the right to decide their international affairs? Should Russia schedule a delivery of nuclear weapons to Cuba for this week or next? >Ya know The Us feels very threatened by Belarus. They should have to withdraw from their alliance from Russia and decouple Is that because of its close proximity to Maine? I guess it's closer than Iraq...

giantrobot 5y ago

Any actions taken by "the West" will be turned into propaganda inside Russia. Economic sanctions are the only action that won't automatically lead to nuclear war or embolden Putin to try to retake all the USSR's former vassal states. Russia invaded a neighboring country and is racking up the war crimes against civilians there. A Russian teenager unable to play XBox is maybe slightly less important than the indiscriminate shelling of hospitals and nuclear power plants.

foxfluff 5y ago
> A Russian teenager unable to play XBox is maybe slightly less important than the indiscriminate shelling of hospitals and nuclear power plants. And straight up shooting civilians on the street with assault rifles... this is literally happening in Ukraine :(

ericmay 5y ago

If the pervasive narrative is that Russia is surrounded by enemies (hence invading Ukraine) anyway then why does it matter? This narrative has been around for awhile, not recently. And the sanctions also result in oligarchs losing their assets. Want to be an ass and disconnect from the west? Fine. But you’re not taking your toys. They can be in prison together with the people they constantly barrage with these narratives. If sanctions don’t work and not sanctioning doesn’t work, might as well sanction and be done with it.