5 ms·

I haven’t knowingly eaten an animal product in over 10 years, but in that same time, I’ve met many people who will tell you they’re vegan but when you go out to

I haven’t knowingly eaten an animal product in over 10 years, but in that same time, I’ve met many people who will tell you they’re vegan but when you go out to eat with them, they’ll suggest that it’s ok if they just have a little meat or dairy. That experience (though anecdotal) makes it hard for me to trust this article’s title.

bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
Just anecdata but almost every vegetarian I have met has a cheat they allow themselves.
- vlod 5y ago
  Been a vegetarian for ~25 years, I don't cheat as my 'beliefs' (or whatever you want to call it) out-way my desire to eat bacon. For me, at a certain point it became psychological and would be really hard for me to cheat. i.e. I've tried those better-burger (or derivatives) and mentally I have to keep reminding myself it's not meat as it's a small step in throwing up. I pretty much don't order them any more). In the early days, the smell of bacon was the most tempting, but now it also turns my stomach and I have to leave the room. I can't imagine even trying those fake-meat prawns.
- geranim0 5y ago
  I am, and the cheats I allow myself are for convenience, for example when I go out or invited somewhere. I am not going to be that guy and be picky, i'll just eat whatever is there.
- jlokier 5y ago
  I'm a vegetarian who has a 'cheat' but it's based on ethics, not a way of getting something I want. If a significant item of meat will go to waste due to something out of someone's control, then I might eat the meat. The ethical evaluation I'd do is to ask whether the benefit of showing that I do not want to contribute to meat being made for me is outweighed by the waste of simply throwing it away. A similar reasoning would apply to, say, turning up at a dinner and the host had made a mistake and has no useful alternatives. They'll be embarrassed enough already, they'll be told I'm vegetarian but that I'll happy to eat the meat on that occasion. I'm not there to make it worse for them. But if there's plenty of veg so it's not a problem, I'll just have the veg. On the other hand if the host didn't care and had made meat knowing I don't (want to) eat meat, then I'd decline to eat. I can go a few days without food if I have to. Also I'm tolerant of preparation mistakes, like meat arriving in a takeaway dish where it would be more trouble than it's worth to replace it (but I'd still seek a refund). All the above together happened about 3 times in the last 10 years I think. I like doing it when it happens, because it reminds me and others that my vegetarianism is an active choice for me, that I make without feeling compelled to. That said, I'm really not used to eating meat any more, and like my sibling commenter, if a fake meat seems realistic it makes me worry that I've been served the real stuff by mistake. I'd probably finish it but I'd really want to know. I think I consider being vegatarian instead of vegan a cheat. Cheese and eggs are just too good. But alternatives are getting better these days, and I tend to eat vegan pizzas now.
giraffe_lady 5y ago
Well the headline is about people's claims that they don't eat meat, not about whether that claim matches your definition of what a vegetarian is. Similarly there are cultural and possibly generational differences to these things. In the US people seem to use a very strict definition, but I have lived in places where a meal without meat in it is considered vegetarian, even if it contains animal products like lard. These people might not be vegetarian according to your standards, but if they consider themselves to be how should they answer the question on a survey? Plus I mean, it is ok. It is. If someone asks me I will tell them I don't smoke because my identity is as a nonsmoker, even though I had a cigarette a few months ago. Individuals could reject my claim based on their view of what that cigarette means, but that doesn't make me wrong to make the claim or identify in this way.
- PretzelPirate 5y ago
  > Well the headline is about people's claims that they don't eat meat, not about whether that claim matches your definition of what a vegetarian is. I simply used my personal experience to highlight that people can’t be trusted to give accurate information around how they consume animal products. I used veganism (not vegetarianism) because it has a rather well-defined criteria, and is what I have the most experience with. > If someone asks me I will tell them I don't smoke because my identity is as a nonsmoker, even though I had a cigarette a few months ago. Certainly, this depends on the question, but a good survey question won’t leave ambiguity. It will likely specify a time frame and give you choices on how many cigarettes you’ve used, as well as asking if you identify as a smoker. If I asked you “are you a smoker?”, your answer would rightfully be “no” since the definition of “smoker” requires regular use. If I asked “have you smoked tobacco products anytime in the last six months?”, I’d expect your answer to be “yes”. With veganism, you can be directly told “I’m a vegan too” when someone hears you’re vegan. If they also choose to consume animals products during a casual meal with many vegan options, there’s no definition of the word “vegan” that they’d fit.
Fezzik 5y ago
Agreed. I was recently dating someone who introduced and held herself out as a vegetarian. Our first date: sushi. She ate oodles of meat. Subsequent meals included lots of bacon (‘I don’t eat it that often’) and steak, occasionally. Really, she just didn’t like chicken. I know loads of people that fit this mold.
mgh2 5y ago
Yeah this is the problem with surveys, the discrepancy between what people say and what they actually do. Same happens with religion surveys. Call it lying or hypocrisy, it is just human nature. Not an expert, but in UX research you can go deeper by asking "why", but even then you need to confirm this (by consilience) with watching behavior, analytics or other methods. Human behavior is highly unreliable and irrational
throwaway_4ever 5y ago
This is a consequence of the proliferation of identity based politics, where having titles and labels grants people special status.
kar5pt 5y ago
Why does it matter? If someone's reducing their meat consumption by a large amount, that's still a meaningful change. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago

Just anecdata but almost every vegetarian I have met has a cheat they allow themselves.

vlod 5y ago
Been a vegetarian for ~25 years, I don't cheat as my 'beliefs' (or whatever you want to call it) out-way my desire to eat bacon. For me, at a certain point it became psychological and would be really hard for me to cheat. i.e. I've tried those better-burger (or derivatives) and mentally I have to keep reminding myself it's not meat as it's a small step in throwing up. I pretty much don't order them any more). In the early days, the smell of bacon was the most tempting, but now it also turns my stomach and I have to leave the room. I can't imagine even trying those fake-meat prawns.
geranim0 5y ago
I am, and the cheats I allow myself are for convenience, for example when I go out or invited somewhere. I am not going to be that guy and be picky, i'll just eat whatever is there.
jlokier 5y ago
I'm a vegetarian who has a 'cheat' but it's based on ethics, not a way of getting something I want. If a significant item of meat will go to waste due to something out of someone's control, then I might eat the meat. The ethical evaluation I'd do is to ask whether the benefit of showing that I do not want to contribute to meat being made for me is outweighed by the waste of simply throwing it away. A similar reasoning would apply to, say, turning up at a dinner and the host had made a mistake and has no useful alternatives. They'll be embarrassed enough already, they'll be told I'm vegetarian but that I'll happy to eat the meat on that occasion. I'm not there to make it worse for them. But if there's plenty of veg so it's not a problem, I'll just have the veg. On the other hand if the host didn't care and had made meat knowing I don't (want to) eat meat, then I'd decline to eat. I can go a few days without food if I have to. Also I'm tolerant of preparation mistakes, like meat arriving in a takeaway dish where it would be more trouble than it's worth to replace it (but I'd still seek a refund). All the above together happened about 3 times in the last 10 years I think. I like doing it when it happens, because it reminds me and others that my vegetarianism is an active choice for me, that I make without feeling compelled to. That said, I'm really not used to eating meat any more, and like my sibling commenter, if a fake meat seems realistic it makes me worry that I've been served the real stuff by mistake. I'd probably finish it but I'd really want to know. I think I consider being vegatarian instead of vegan a cheat. Cheese and eggs are just too good. But alternatives are getting better these days, and I tend to eat vegan pizzas now.

giraffe_lady 5y ago

Well the headline is about people's claims that they don't eat meat, not about whether that claim matches your definition of what a vegetarian is. Similarly there are cultural and possibly generational differences to these things. In the US people seem to use a very strict definition, but I have lived in places where a meal without meat in it is considered vegetarian, even if it contains animal products like lard. These people might not be vegetarian according to your standards, but if they consider themselves to be how should they answer the question on a survey? Plus I mean, it is ok. It is. If someone asks me I will tell them I don't smoke because my identity is as a nonsmoker, even though I had a cigarette a few months ago. Individuals could reject my claim based on their view of what that cigarette means, but that doesn't make me wrong to make the claim or identify in this way.

PretzelPirate 5y ago
> Well the headline is about people's claims that they don't eat meat, not about whether that claim matches your definition of what a vegetarian is. I simply used my personal experience to highlight that people can’t be trusted to give accurate information around how they consume animal products. I used veganism (not vegetarianism) because it has a rather well-defined criteria, and is what I have the most experience with. > If someone asks me I will tell them I don't smoke because my identity is as a nonsmoker, even though I had a cigarette a few months ago. Certainly, this depends on the question, but a good survey question won’t leave ambiguity. It will likely specify a time frame and give you choices on how many cigarettes you’ve used, as well as asking if you identify as a smoker. If I asked you “are you a smoker?”, your answer would rightfully be “no” since the definition of “smoker” requires regular use. If I asked “have you smoked tobacco products anytime in the last six months?”, I’d expect your answer to be “yes”. With veganism, you can be directly told “I’m a vegan too” when someone hears you’re vegan. If they also choose to consume animals products during a casual meal with many vegan options, there’s no definition of the word “vegan” that they’d fit.

Fezzik 5y ago

Agreed. I was recently dating someone who introduced and held herself out as a vegetarian. Our first date: sushi. She ate oodles of meat. Subsequent meals included lots of bacon (‘I don’t eat it that often’) and steak, occasionally. Really, she just didn’t like chicken. I know loads of people that fit this mold.

mgh2 5y ago

Yeah this is the problem with surveys, the discrepancy between what people say and what they actually do. Same happens with religion surveys. Call it lying or hypocrisy, it is just human nature. Not an expert, but in UX research you can go deeper by asking "why", but even then you need to confirm this (by consilience) with watching behavior, analytics or other methods. Human behavior is highly unreliable and irrational

throwaway_4ever 5y ago

This is a consequence of the proliferation of identity based politics, where having titles and labels grants people special status.

kar5pt 5y ago

Why does it matter? If someone's reducing their meat consumption by a large amount, that's still a meaningful change. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.