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Tell that to the Ukrainians taking up arms and risking their lives. Do you think they care more about the items on your list of 'things that don't matter', or a

Tell that to the Ukrainians taking up arms and risking their lives. Do you think they care more about the items on your list of 'things that don't matter', or about ending the war at any cost?

jmyeet 5y ago
Are you seriously suggesting Ukrainians want a war with Russia? There is no outcome of a protracted war with Russia where Ukraine "wins". None. Even if they expel a Russian occupation, at what cost? How much of the country is levelled in the meantime? How many people have died? And even after the Russians leave, the country is awash with weapons and newly-emboldened extremist groups. With the uniting threat of an invader gone, the country becomes fractured. Extremist groups are bound to decide whatever administration Ukraine has at that point isn't doing enough and now they're a problem. We've seen how this plays out so many times and it always ends badly. - Intervention in Syria created Asaad. - Intervention in Iran created a fundamentalist regime that has been an issue for decades; - Intervention in Iraq to counterbalance the Iranian fundamentalist regime created Saddam Hussein; - Intervention in Vietnam wrecked the country; - Intervention in Afghanistan against the Soviet occupation wrecked the country and created Osama bin Laden; and - 20 years of intervention in Afghanistan resulted in the exact same regime (the Taliban) controlling the country. But yes, this time will be different.
- Buttons840 5y ago
  Yes. Ukrainian wants a war with Russia. Often people want the results of their actions. Ukrainians are taking actions that result in war. They are shooting at Russians, Russians are shooting at them, that is a war. If one of the sides is not shooting, then it's no longer a war. Ukraine could lay down and simply give up the 'things that don't matter' (from your OP) and war would end. Ukraine could capitulate. Ukraine could end the war by surrendering. Why don't they? To be clear: War is very low on the list of Ukrainian's wants, but Ukraine wants war more than it wants surrender.
- keewee7 5y ago
  >Are you seriously suggesting Ukrainians want a war with Russia? Yes, they want to wage a defensive war against the invaders. Putin and Lavrov have said Ukraine is a historical mistake. They want to assimilate Ukraine into Russia and commit cultural genocide. Ukrainians have every right to kill the Russian invaders. The West has every right to put sanctions on Russia and support the Ukrainian resistance.

Tell that to the Ukrainians taking up arms and risking their lives. Do you think they care more about the items on your list of 'things that don't matter', or about ending the war at any cost?

jmyeet 5y ago

Are you seriously suggesting Ukrainians want a war with Russia? There is no outcome of a protracted war with Russia where Ukraine "wins". None. Even if they expel a Russian occupation, at what cost? How much of the country is levelled in the meantime? How many people have died? And even after the Russians leave, the country is awash with weapons and newly-emboldened extremist groups. With the uniting threat of an invader gone, the country becomes fractured. Extremist groups are bound to decide whatever administration Ukraine has at that point isn't doing enough and now they're a problem. We've seen how this plays out so many times and it always ends badly. - Intervention in Syria created Asaad. - Intervention in Iran created a fundamentalist regime that has been an issue for decades; - Intervention in Iraq to counterbalance the Iranian fundamentalist regime created Saddam Hussein; - Intervention in Vietnam wrecked the country; - Intervention in Afghanistan against the Soviet occupation wrecked the country and created Osama bin Laden; and - 20 years of intervention in Afghanistan resulted in the exact same regime (the Taliban) controlling the country. But yes, this time will be different.

Buttons840 5y ago
Yes. Ukrainian wants a war with Russia. Often people want the results of their actions. Ukrainians are taking actions that result in war. They are shooting at Russians, Russians are shooting at them, that is a war. If one of the sides is not shooting, then it's no longer a war. Ukraine could lay down and simply give up the 'things that don't matter' (from your OP) and war would end. Ukraine could capitulate. Ukraine could end the war by surrendering. Why don't they? To be clear: War is very low on the list of Ukrainian's wants, but Ukraine wants war more than it wants surrender.
keewee7 5y ago
>Are you seriously suggesting Ukrainians want a war with Russia? Yes, they want to wage a defensive war against the invaders. Putin and Lavrov have said Ukraine is a historical mistake. They want to assimilate Ukraine into Russia and commit cultural genocide. Ukrainians have every right to kill the Russian invaders. The West has every right to put sanctions on Russia and support the Ukrainian resistance.