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My guess for the downvotes is the claim this isn’t Biden’s fault. There’s a large camp of people who think the US is forcing Ukraine into this position by eggin

My guess for the downvotes is the claim this isn’t Biden’s fault. There’s a large camp of people who think the US is forcing Ukraine into this position by egging on Russia. I don’t think that’s the case personally. One thing I do think Biden did wrong was shut down the keystone pipeline and forcing us to buy oil from Russia as a result, which gave Russia a great way to fund a war campaign.

XorNot 5y ago
The US is still oil independent - the keystone pipeline didn't change a thing in that regard (how could it? If you can ship oil from Russia, you can ship it from slightly further north in your own continent. Oil is a fungible commodity though: the price is effected by global demand - as I noted in a previous thread on this exact subject, the idea of "independence" and "dependence" both mean nothing so long as private enterprise can own the resource and faces no restrictions on its export.
- zthrowaway 5y ago
  Okay, makes sense. But how does that negate us giving Russia a war chest of money the past year?
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    They’ve been seizing all of that money. It’s mostly unavailable at this point.
  - rsfern 5y ago
    If you mean Russian oil exports, I thought the bulk of those went to Europe and China. It looks like 8 or 9% of US oil imports have been coming from Russia. About half our imports are from Canada. I’m not sure what percentage of US oil usage would be Russian import, but it doesn’t seem like “war chest” level? https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0... Edit: on further inspection, it does seem like a large dollar amount. And if you look at 2019 numbers, we imported a much larger fraction from Russia than in 2021. I still think much more Russian oil goes to Europe
foogazi 5y ago
> One thing I do think Biden did wrong was shut down the keystone pipeline Biden did not shut down the Keystone pipeline - he revoked the permit for Keystone pipeline phase 4 (KeystoneXL) on January 20, 2021 The rest of the Keystone pipeline is operational and delivering Canadian oil to midwest refineries I don’t think KeystoneXL would have been completed in time to have any effect on the Ukrainian invasion

XorNot 5y ago

The US is still oil independent - the keystone pipeline didn't change a thing in that regard (how could it? If you can ship oil from Russia, you can ship it from slightly further north in your own continent. Oil is a fungible commodity though: the price is effected by global demand - as I noted in a previous thread on this exact subject, the idea of "independence" and "dependence" both mean nothing so long as private enterprise can own the resource and faces no restrictions on its export.

zthrowaway 5y ago
Okay, makes sense. But how does that negate us giving Russia a war chest of money the past year?
- ModernMech 5y ago
  They’ve been seizing all of that money. It’s mostly unavailable at this point.
- rsfern 5y ago
  If you mean Russian oil exports, I thought the bulk of those went to Europe and China. It looks like 8 or 9% of US oil imports have been coming from Russia. About half our imports are from Canada. I’m not sure what percentage of US oil usage would be Russian import, but it doesn’t seem like “war chest” level? https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0... Edit: on further inspection, it does seem like a large dollar amount. And if you look at 2019 numbers, we imported a much larger fraction from Russia than in 2021. I still think much more Russian oil goes to Europe

foogazi 5y ago

> One thing I do think Biden did wrong was shut down the keystone pipeline Biden did not shut down the Keystone pipeline - he revoked the permit for Keystone pipeline phase 4 (KeystoneXL) on January 20, 2021 The rest of the Keystone pipeline is operational and delivering Canadian oil to midwest refineries I don’t think KeystoneXL would have been completed in time to have any effect on the Ukrainian invasion