4 ms·

A Set of Consistent Principles That Are Equally Applied to the USA and Russia?

12 points by barry-cotter 5y ago

strogonoff 5y ago
When in the Balkans, I noticed how people’s general dislike of war is strongly tempered by a recent history of their fellow civilians being bombed by NATO using weaponry prohibited by international conventions.
- Bostonian 5y ago
  My recollection is that Serbia was committing war crimes against Bosnia, which is what prompted NATO air strikes.
  - foverzar 5y ago
    This is like excusing Russian invasion with the fact that Ukraine was commiting war crimes in Donetsk.
    - marginalia_nu 5y ago
      Every side commits war crimes pretty much every war. The losers go to Hague for ritual humiliation, the winners don't see any consequences because there is no mechanism to compel them to submit to a trial, otherwise Russia would have already been indicted long before this invasion.
      - foverzar 5y ago
        > Every side commits war crimes pretty much every war. The losers go to Hague for ritual humiliation, the winners don't see any consequences because there is no mechanism to compel them to submit to a trial Somewhat agreed. Russia wouldn't even have a casus belli for the invasion, if this mechanism was working at all.
  - strogonoff 5y ago
    NATO’s cluster bombing of dual-use targets (of “potential use” to military) resulted in deaths of more than a thousand civilians, according to Yugoslav government. The anecdata I am receiving from first-hand observers on the ground in Ukraine is remarkably similar. Invaders fire at military targets or when they are fired upon, and tall buildings get under fire because how else can it go in a city. This creates an impression that both sides are disseminating misinformation using mass and social media to further their respective agendas. I can see why Balkan people are not particularly taken by Western media coverage of this either.
kwertyoowiyop 5y ago
So many political opinion pieces lately. There’s a place for them, somewhere else.
NoPie 5y ago
This is a common view among many commentators but apparently not very popular with his subscribers. I liked his articles even though I am not a subscriber. In this case I think he really misses the point for several reasons: 1) My post-Soviet country joined NATO as soon as it was able to. The current events show that it was a very good, maybe even existential decision. 2) I am actually protesting against US embargo over Cuba. Nevertheless, the embargo is not depriving Cuba's free determination. It also doesn't excuse the socialist regime in Cuba. 3) I also protested the US/NATO invasion in Iraq, how it dealt with Afghanistan etc. 4) Consequently his arguments are whataboutism despite him not liking this. At the moment Russia is attacking Ukraine and we should do something about it. I admit, I am partial because Ukraine is closer to my country than Syria. We should stand for every country but it is not wrong that the charity starts at home. 5) It is a tragedy and he must be tone deaf to write such an article at this time.

12 points by barry-cotter 5y ago

When in the Balkans, I noticed how people’s general dislike of war is strongly tempered by a recent history of their fellow civilians being bombed by NATO using weaponry prohibited by international conventions.

Bostonian 5y ago
My recollection is that Serbia was committing war crimes against Bosnia, which is what prompted NATO air strikes.
- foverzar 5y ago
  This is like excusing Russian invasion with the fact that Ukraine was commiting war crimes in Donetsk.
  - marginalia_nu 5y ago
    Every side commits war crimes pretty much every war. The losers go to Hague for ritual humiliation, the winners don't see any consequences because there is no mechanism to compel them to submit to a trial, otherwise Russia would have already been indicted long before this invasion.
    - foverzar 5y ago
      > Every side commits war crimes pretty much every war. The losers go to Hague for ritual humiliation, the winners don't see any consequences because there is no mechanism to compel them to submit to a trial Somewhat agreed. Russia wouldn't even have a casus belli for the invasion, if this mechanism was working at all.
- strogonoff 5y ago
  NATO’s cluster bombing of dual-use targets (of “potential use” to military) resulted in deaths of more than a thousand civilians, according to Yugoslav government. The anecdata I am receiving from first-hand observers on the ground in Ukraine is remarkably similar. Invaders fire at military targets or when they are fired upon, and tall buildings get under fire because how else can it go in a city. This creates an impression that both sides are disseminating misinformation using mass and social media to further their respective agendas. I can see why Balkan people are not particularly taken by Western media coverage of this either.

kwertyoowiyop 5y ago

So many political opinion pieces lately. There’s a place for them, somewhere else.

NoPie 5y ago

This is a common view among many commentators but apparently not very popular with his subscribers. I liked his articles even though I am not a subscriber. In this case I think he really misses the point for several reasons: 1) My post-Soviet country joined NATO as soon as it was able to. The current events show that it was a very good, maybe even existential decision. 2) I am actually protesting against US embargo over Cuba. Nevertheless, the embargo is not depriving Cuba's free determination. It also doesn't excuse the socialist regime in Cuba. 3) I also protested the US/NATO invasion in Iraq, how it dealt with Afghanistan etc. 4) Consequently his arguments are whataboutism despite him not liking this. At the moment Russia is attacking Ukraine and we should do something about it. I admit, I am partial because Ukraine is closer to my country than Syria. We should stand for every country but it is not wrong that the charity starts at home. 5) It is a tragedy and he must be tone deaf to write such an article at this time.