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Remember folks, the best way to halt a Russian invasion of your homeland is to apparently not fight them. If pundits weren't so regularly stupid I'd almost thi

by XorNot 5y ago

Remember folks, the best way to halt a Russian invasion of your homeland is to apparently not fight them. If pundits weren't so regularly stupid I'd almost think this was paid for propaganda.

random_upvoter 5y ago
Can you tell me about the last time that the city you live in was shelled by artillery? What did it feel like? Were you tempted to consider surrender in return for cessation of hostilities?
- NoPie 5y ago
  For my country the last time was the WW2 and the people fought against Germany. I wonder if they think that it would have been better not to fight against Hitler as well?
- throw_m239339 5y ago
  > Can you tell me about the last time that the city you live in was shelled by artillery? Never because likely NATO has got his back, which the same NATO isn't giving Ukraine when they expressly demand NATO assistance. > What did it feel like? Were you tempted to consider surrender in return for cessation of hostilities? That must certainly feels like a betrayal for Ukrainians.
celticninja 5y ago
Yup, what a stupid take. Avoid wars, let the agressor win. It's like one of those stupid DIY 5 minutes tiktoks
- smoyer 5y ago
  We laid down our arms and embraced our invaders and you won't believe what happened next! When I was relatively young, my mom was against violence and wanted me to talk things out with some kids that were bullying me. Things didn't improve until I beat a few of them up. Putin has implied he's cornered and therefore overly aggressive in a story from his childhood where he's chasing a huge rat. We need to slam the door on his nose.
  - celticninja 5y ago
    Same here. Bullying stopped the day I beat the shit out of my bully. I got suspended for a 2 days as a result. My parents didn't punish me at all. When my kid was being bullied we went through all the usual channels, tell teachers etc. Then when all that was done and it carried on I told him to hit them. Got a call from school about it, told them they should have handled it, should not have been left up to my 9 year old but their inaction caused it. Told them that I had told my son that no matter what school said he did the right thing.
- croes 5y ago
  Ever heard of the Resistance? It's not about letting the agressor win, it's about fight back without losing your city. Right know Putin could just bomb the Kyiv to ashes.
  - XorNot 5y ago
    No he probably couldn't. He could nuke it, but sending a bunch of planes against a city which has air defense cover is a good way to lose your airforce. He sure can't get artillery near it - because he'd have done it if that armor convoy could move. Instead it's getting bombed by Ukranian war planes. Resistance fighters lose against an occupier at something like a 10:1 ratio - against the resistance. They lose on average 10 members for every occupation kill. You can prove this to yourself - what did the US lose in Afgahnistan vs the Taliban? For how many years? You should always try and win the conventional war if you can do win at a better rate then that - which the Ukraine is.
    - croes 5y ago
      The civilians throwing Molotov cocktails aren't part of the conventional war. The just become legitimate targets
      - XorNot 5y ago
        What do you think a resistance is? And how it wins?
        croes 5y ago
        Not conventional war.
marginalia_nu 5y ago
I do think it's fair to show the whole picture. Even if the Ukrainians do halt the Russian war machine, it comes at an incredibly steep price. Fighting for freedom is glamorized as some wholesome star wars rebellion where the good guys always win. In practice the dynamic often gets incredibly ugly and whatever victory there is to have is Pyrrhic at best. The way to fight a guerilla is to oppress harder, to break the population, to systematically ransack and destroy anything beautiful, monuments, cultural icons, anything that gives identity or a cause to fight back until there is nothing left but rubble. It's real easy to sit in an armchair halfway across the world and say it's worth sacrificing everything for freedom. But yeah, maybe this is worth it, I don't presume to know. Drawn out guerilla war comes at the sort of cost nobody other than Ukraine gets to decide whether they think it's worth it.
FastMonkey 5y ago
Maybe people are so used to living in such a safe country that they can't even conceive of a real threat to its existence. Countries only exist because they're willed into existence. Sure, Ukraine isn't perfect, but it's the Ukrainians' and they have every right in the world to defend it. That said, the way the conversation is going on here in the last day or two, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these comments were direct propaganda, or people have been soaking it up from somewhere else.
- foogazi 5y ago
  > That said, the way the conversation is going on here in the last day or two, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these comments were direct propaganda Agree

by XorNot 5y ago

Remember folks, the best way to halt a Russian invasion of your homeland is to apparently not fight them. If pundits weren't so regularly stupid I'd almost think this was paid for propaganda.

random_upvoter 5y ago

Can you tell me about the last time that the city you live in was shelled by artillery? What did it feel like? Were you tempted to consider surrender in return for cessation of hostilities?

NoPie 5y ago
For my country the last time was the WW2 and the people fought against Germany. I wonder if they think that it would have been better not to fight against Hitler as well?
throw_m239339 5y ago
> Can you tell me about the last time that the city you live in was shelled by artillery? Never because likely NATO has got his back, which the same NATO isn't giving Ukraine when they expressly demand NATO assistance. > What did it feel like? Were you tempted to consider surrender in return for cessation of hostilities? That must certainly feels like a betrayal for Ukrainians.

celticninja 5y ago

Yup, what a stupid take. Avoid wars, let the agressor win. It's like one of those stupid DIY 5 minutes tiktoks

smoyer 5y ago
We laid down our arms and embraced our invaders and you won't believe what happened next! When I was relatively young, my mom was against violence and wanted me to talk things out with some kids that were bullying me. Things didn't improve until I beat a few of them up. Putin has implied he's cornered and therefore overly aggressive in a story from his childhood where he's chasing a huge rat. We need to slam the door on his nose.
- celticninja 5y ago
  Same here. Bullying stopped the day I beat the shit out of my bully. I got suspended for a 2 days as a result. My parents didn't punish me at all. When my kid was being bullied we went through all the usual channels, tell teachers etc. Then when all that was done and it carried on I told him to hit them. Got a call from school about it, told them they should have handled it, should not have been left up to my 9 year old but their inaction caused it. Told them that I had told my son that no matter what school said he did the right thing.
croes 5y ago
Ever heard of the Resistance? It's not about letting the agressor win, it's about fight back without losing your city. Right know Putin could just bomb the Kyiv to ashes.
- XorNot 5y ago
  No he probably couldn't. He could nuke it, but sending a bunch of planes against a city which has air defense cover is a good way to lose your airforce. He sure can't get artillery near it - because he'd have done it if that armor convoy could move. Instead it's getting bombed by Ukranian war planes. Resistance fighters lose against an occupier at something like a 10:1 ratio - against the resistance. They lose on average 10 members for every occupation kill. You can prove this to yourself - what did the US lose in Afgahnistan vs the Taliban? For how many years? You should always try and win the conventional war if you can do win at a better rate then that - which the Ukraine is.
  - croes 5y ago
    The civilians throwing Molotov cocktails aren't part of the conventional war. The just become legitimate targets
    - XorNot 5y ago
      What do you think a resistance is? And how it wins?
      - croes 5y ago
        Not conventional war.

marginalia_nu 5y ago

I do think it's fair to show the whole picture. Even if the Ukrainians do halt the Russian war machine, it comes at an incredibly steep price. Fighting for freedom is glamorized as some wholesome star wars rebellion where the good guys always win. In practice the dynamic often gets incredibly ugly and whatever victory there is to have is Pyrrhic at best. The way to fight a guerilla is to oppress harder, to break the population, to systematically ransack and destroy anything beautiful, monuments, cultural icons, anything that gives identity or a cause to fight back until there is nothing left but rubble. It's real easy to sit in an armchair halfway across the world and say it's worth sacrificing everything for freedom. But yeah, maybe this is worth it, I don't presume to know. Drawn out guerilla war comes at the sort of cost nobody other than Ukraine gets to decide whether they think it's worth it.

FastMonkey 5y ago

Maybe people are so used to living in such a safe country that they can't even conceive of a real threat to its existence. Countries only exist because they're willed into existence. Sure, Ukraine isn't perfect, but it's the Ukrainians' and they have every right in the world to defend it. That said, the way the conversation is going on here in the last day or two, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these comments were direct propaganda, or people have been soaking it up from somewhere else.

foogazi 5y ago
> That said, the way the conversation is going on here in the last day or two, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these comments were direct propaganda Agree