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> Important warning: Starlink is the only non-Russian communications system still working in some parts of Ukraine, Sounds like something to take with a pinch

> Important warning: Starlink is the only non-Russian communications system still working in some parts of Ukraine, Sounds like something to take with a pinch of salt. I find it hard to believe that Inmarsat, Iridium etc. are no longer functional in Ukraine. Edit to add: (a) Given all the Western journos broadcasting out of Ukraine, I think it is almost certainly a fact that Inmarsat, Iridium etc. are still functional because its kind of standard kit for warzone correspondents. All the "senior correspondents" the major news orgs are sending out to Ukraine will have cut their teeth on Inmarsat, Iridium etc., and will be comfortable with its use and operation. (b) Twitter post from Iridium boss saying they've stopped shipments to Russia but have no intention of stopping shipments to Ukraine and/or stopping service over Ukraine. "Shutting down service over Ukraine would stop Ukrainian use and aid orgs as well."[1] [1] https://twitter.com/IridiumBoss/status/1498847589520846854?s=20&t=R-mGjfmEcMEbwoud5eednQ https://twitter.com/IridiumBoss/status/1498847589520846854?s...

thawaya3113 5y ago
I’m almost certain it’s not true. I work with developers in Ukraine. They’re still logging in, joining calls, etc. I doubt that’s because they’re among the “lucky” few that got Starlink receivers. Musk is just a really effective lying conman.
- saberience 5y ago
  He said "parts" of Ukraine. He didn't say all of Ukraine. I think it's probably highly likely there are some parts of Ukraine without Internet and using Starlink would be the only way to get internet.
  - traceroute66 5y ago
    > He said "parts" of Ukraine. And which "parts" of Ukraine would that be that don't have the view of the sky required to get Iridium, Inmarsat etc. working ? Last time I checked, Starlink required a view of the sky too. ;-)
    - mobilefriendly 5y ago
      Traditional satellite phones, with 800ms latency and data caps, are not in the same category as the unmetered broadband access provided by low orbit Starlink.
      - teleforce 5y ago
        Not trying to pedantic (OK maybe a little), but the tweet is clearly mentioning "communications systems" not unmetered broadband access, and there's a huge difference between the two.
- traceroute66 5y ago
  > Musk is just a really effective lying conman I have always been a little dubious about Musk. Whether bold claims about magical tunnels under cities or over-selling the abilities of cars. But ultimately, for me the final straw was at the whole Thai cave rescue thing. After that, I've considered him largely a marketeer when it comes to abilities to make useful contributions to world events.
- mobilefriendly 5y ago
  The personal attack on Musk is unwarranted and violates HN norms. I'm working with an aid organization on the ground in Ukraine desperately seeking Starlink. They currently have mobile internet but expect it lose it soon.
  - ethanbond 5y ago
    Well it’s not unwarranted if he has a history of lying for money, which he does. Thai submarine thing, “full self-driving,” most egregiously: rolling a stop sign at 2mph is “not running stop signs.”
    - matt123456789 5y ago
      The Thai submarine thing - that was a poor decision on his part. But the technical things you mention, like the stop sign “rolling stop” - I think that’s a bit slippery. Where I live, 2mph is definitely considered stopping. I would not think twice about going 2mph through a stop sign, as long as that gives me enough time to evaluate whether it is safe to proceed or actually come to a complete stop. And if it bothers you that much, you could always have put it in “cautious” mode or whatever it was called. As far as full self-driving goes, have you seen recent versions? It is seriously impressive. Still not level 3/4 SAE so I guess it’s technically a lie, but they are working hard to make it less of a lie. It would be nice if they were more upfront with their customers about what capabilities exist today, vs what they hope to achieve in the near future. Here’s a random video of v10.10 on YouTube: https://youtu.be/1-UTGwP33DE https://youtu.be/1-UTGwP33DE
      - ethanbond 5y ago
        These comments don’t help Musk at all. This just increases conviction that the Musk boosters must be ignored because they clearly have their own definitions of basic things like “stopping” and “lying.” None of this is commentary on the underlying tech. Obviously Tesla is impressive, obviously SpaceX is impressive, obviously Musk is impressive. But none of these should absolve him/his companies/his supporters from basic obligations toward truth - especially when introducing potentially dangerous technologies to “the commons” like public roads.
exikyut 5y ago
> still working in 𝘀𝗼𝗺𝗲 parts of Ukraine Emphasis: some, not all
- traceroute66 5y ago
  > Emphasis: some, not all Use all the bold type you like, make it size 200 if it makes you feel better, but I will simply re-iterate: Which "parts" of Ukraine would that be that don't have the view of the sky required to get Iridium, Inmarsat etc. working ? Last time I checked, Starlink required a view of the sky too. ;-) To be clear, my issue is not with Starlink per-se, but with the claim "the only non-Russian communications system still working" which should be taken with a significant pinch of salt as it is effectively impossible to believe. Particularly so given the public Twitter statement made by the boss of Iridium that clearly states they are still live over Ukraine, still shipping kit to Ukraine and have no intention of doing otherwise.
  - actuator 5y ago
    Oh, it is just Musk doing his publicity. Unless we have seen proof of no other communication satellite being able to provide communications, I wouldn't believe his word.
    - serf 5y ago
      >Oh, it is just Musk doing his publicity I don't know whether or not normalizing such behavior is sane, especially during a kill/be-killed war scenario.
      - sangnoir 5y ago
        Anything topical (tragedy or not) is a good opportunity to publicize the Musk brand: from little boys trapped in a flooded cave system, to promising "ventilators" during a deadly COVID outbreak
- galosh 5y ago
  @dang nice Unicode hack here you might want to consider filtering
bell-cot 5y ago
Rather than deconstruct whether Elan's tweet is an ivory-tower Truth, or talk about a few (very specialized, niche) alternatives...maybe his tweet should be interpreted as an "urgent personal safety warning" to Ukrainian Starlink users? Those folks could be a lot closer to "clueless noobs" than to "SIGINT sophisticates". Mr. Musk might prefer that they not be added to the death toll - whether via cutting-edge homing missiles, or just well-armed partisans with cheap radio direction finders and "human rights are for sissies" attitudes. Just a thought.

thawaya3113 5y ago

I’m almost certain it’s not true. I work with developers in Ukraine. They’re still logging in, joining calls, etc. I doubt that’s because they’re among the “lucky” few that got Starlink receivers. Musk is just a really effective lying conman.

saberience 5y ago
He said "parts" of Ukraine. He didn't say all of Ukraine. I think it's probably highly likely there are some parts of Ukraine without Internet and using Starlink would be the only way to get internet.
- traceroute66 5y ago
  > He said "parts" of Ukraine. And which "parts" of Ukraine would that be that don't have the view of the sky required to get Iridium, Inmarsat etc. working ? Last time I checked, Starlink required a view of the sky too. ;-)
  - mobilefriendly 5y ago
    Traditional satellite phones, with 800ms latency and data caps, are not in the same category as the unmetered broadband access provided by low orbit Starlink.
    - teleforce 5y ago
      Not trying to pedantic (OK maybe a little), but the tweet is clearly mentioning "communications systems" not unmetered broadband access, and there's a huge difference between the two.
traceroute66 5y ago
> Musk is just a really effective lying conman I have always been a little dubious about Musk. Whether bold claims about magical tunnels under cities or over-selling the abilities of cars. But ultimately, for me the final straw was at the whole Thai cave rescue thing. After that, I've considered him largely a marketeer when it comes to abilities to make useful contributions to world events.
mobilefriendly 5y ago
The personal attack on Musk is unwarranted and violates HN norms. I'm working with an aid organization on the ground in Ukraine desperately seeking Starlink. They currently have mobile internet but expect it lose it soon.
- ethanbond 5y ago
  Well it’s not unwarranted if he has a history of lying for money, which he does. Thai submarine thing, “full self-driving,” most egregiously: rolling a stop sign at 2mph is “not running stop signs.”
  - matt123456789 5y ago
    The Thai submarine thing - that was a poor decision on his part. But the technical things you mention, like the stop sign “rolling stop” - I think that’s a bit slippery. Where I live, 2mph is definitely considered stopping. I would not think twice about going 2mph through a stop sign, as long as that gives me enough time to evaluate whether it is safe to proceed or actually come to a complete stop. And if it bothers you that much, you could always have put it in “cautious” mode or whatever it was called. As far as full self-driving goes, have you seen recent versions? It is seriously impressive. Still not level 3/4 SAE so I guess it’s technically a lie, but they are working hard to make it less of a lie. It would be nice if they were more upfront with their customers about what capabilities exist today, vs what they hope to achieve in the near future. Here’s a random video of v10.10 on YouTube: https://youtu.be/1-UTGwP33DE https://youtu.be/1-UTGwP33DE
    - ethanbond 5y ago
      These comments don’t help Musk at all. This just increases conviction that the Musk boosters must be ignored because they clearly have their own definitions of basic things like “stopping” and “lying.” None of this is commentary on the underlying tech. Obviously Tesla is impressive, obviously SpaceX is impressive, obviously Musk is impressive. But none of these should absolve him/his companies/his supporters from basic obligations toward truth - especially when introducing potentially dangerous technologies to “the commons” like public roads.

exikyut 5y ago

> still working in 𝘀𝗼𝗺𝗲 parts of Ukraine Emphasis: some, not all

traceroute66 5y ago
> Emphasis: some, not all Use all the bold type you like, make it size 200 if it makes you feel better, but I will simply re-iterate: Which "parts" of Ukraine would that be that don't have the view of the sky required to get Iridium, Inmarsat etc. working ? Last time I checked, Starlink required a view of the sky too. ;-) To be clear, my issue is not with Starlink per-se, but with the claim "the only non-Russian communications system still working" which should be taken with a significant pinch of salt as it is effectively impossible to believe. Particularly so given the public Twitter statement made by the boss of Iridium that clearly states they are still live over Ukraine, still shipping kit to Ukraine and have no intention of doing otherwise.
- actuator 5y ago
  Oh, it is just Musk doing his publicity. Unless we have seen proof of no other communication satellite being able to provide communications, I wouldn't believe his word.
  - serf 5y ago
    >Oh, it is just Musk doing his publicity I don't know whether or not normalizing such behavior is sane, especially during a kill/be-killed war scenario.
    - sangnoir 5y ago
      Anything topical (tragedy or not) is a good opportunity to publicize the Musk brand: from little boys trapped in a flooded cave system, to promising "ventilators" during a deadly COVID outbreak
galosh 5y ago
@dang nice Unicode hack here you might want to consider filtering

bell-cot 5y ago

Rather than deconstruct whether Elan's tweet is an ivory-tower Truth, or talk about a few (very specialized, niche) alternatives...maybe his tweet should be interpreted as an "urgent personal safety warning" to Ukrainian Starlink users? Those folks could be a lot closer to "clueless noobs" than to "SIGINT sophisticates". Mr. Musk might prefer that they not be added to the death toll - whether via cutting-edge homing missiles, or just well-armed partisans with cheap radio direction finders and "human rights are for sissies" attitudes. Just a thought.