5 ms·

We’re talking about Trump denying the election results, which ended with a lot of violence in the Capitol. This is absolutely misinformation that did lead to r

We’re talking about Trump denying the election results, which ended with a lot of violence in the Capitol. This is absolutely misinformation that did lead to radicalization.

lenkite 5y ago
So did Clinton about the 2016 election and she still claims the same. Along with her consistent hardline that Trump is a Putin Puppet - which is misinformation that has been proved false again & again at great expense to the taxpayer - but still gets published. Zero bans for her - since she is a cherished member of the political mainstream. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trum... https://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-labels-trump-illegitimate-170547434.html https://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-labels-trump-illegiti... https://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-maintains-2016-election-160716779.html https://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-maintains-2016-electi...
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  We have proof that Trump tried to blackmail Zelensky into framing his political opponents by witholding aid they needed to defend themselves from Russia. When Putin started his invasion, Trump praised him for being smart, then praised him again, suggesting he'd captured a whole country for a small cost in sanctions. What do you think you're expressing when you say that Trump isn't a Putin puppet? That he's not made of wood?
  - lenkite 5y ago
    You mean the claim that the Ukrainian President himself denied ? https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/10/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-says-there-was-no-blackmail-in-trump-call.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/10/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-s... And what about Joe Biden's proud public boast that he threatened to withhold aid if a Ukrainian prosecutor wasn't fired ? (who was investigating Burisma - the company whose board Hunter biden was on.) https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-to-fire-prosecutor-for-aid-money/C1C51BB8-3988-4070-869F-CAD3CA0E81D8.html https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-t... Anyways, it's pretty clear that there are different standards for different people for news that gets published/censored/suppressed and most importantly amplified. As Elon Musk said just today: "All news sources are partially propaganda, some more than others" - when he was told by governments (not Ukraine) that Starlink should block Russian news. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1499982913949081600 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1499982913949081600
    - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
      Yes, the person being blackmailed, said that the person blackmailing him, who was still in a position to blackmail him about the (now realised) invasion of his country, which is likely to end with his and his family's death, and potentially could be in the same position for four more years said there was no blackmail and specifically said "“I don’t want to interfere in U.S. elections,”" I don't find that decisive on the facts given everything else. Stormy Daniels denied sleeping with Trump, because someone threatened the life of her child. It was and is still a true thing that happened.
      - lenkite 5y ago
        The transcript was released by the White House and there are no threats made to withdraw Ukrainian aid - quite unlike the explicit and damning public statement made by Biden to withdraw aid, which is also captured on Video - but fails to get any publicity whatsoever as its deeply embarrassing for the favoured media darling. You can continue to speculate further but evidence doesn't fit your claim. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/09/25/trump-releases-transcript-call-ukraine-president/2438300001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/09/25/trum...
        ZeroGravitas 5y ago
        > Although the United States did withhold government aid to pressure Ukraine into removing the prosecutor,[5] this was the official and bipartisan policy of the federal government of the United States, which, along with the European Union, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, believed the prosecutor to be corrupt and ineffective, and too lenient in investigating companies and oligarchs, including Burisma and its owner. You've got the vice-president on tape repeating the official government line in public? And you want this to be front page news? Why? And why did Trump disagree with all those people, in the blackmail transcript you posted he seems a real fan of this person who is linked to Oligarchs and corruption. What's that all about?
        lenkite 5y ago
  - coolso 5y ago
    Whatever Trump was doing to handle Putin certainly seemed to prevent Putin from doing any Ukrainian invading. I think Zelensky and the entire world would prefer more Trump phone calls and less Putin aggression right about now.
    - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
      You know that the Russian army have been in Ukraine for Trump's entire term, right? One of his early big gaffes when running was to say "Russia won't invade Ukraine if he wins" and the journalist pointed out they already had.
      - coolso 5y ago
        You know that’s not what I meant (and likely not what Trump meant either) by “invasion” right? You can prove anyone “wrong” by playing with definitions or getting super technical about things.
      - _-david-_ 5y ago
        Putin invaded in 2014 and 2022. Putin did not do additional invasions when Trump was president, he remained in the part of Ukraine he took when Biden was vice president.
    - VikingCoder 5y ago
      Yes, because Putin was too busy enjoying the other things President Trump let him do. Taken from someone else: Trump had the US military abandon their bases in Syria and Russia promptly captured them. Russia was caught paying bounties in Afghanistan for killing American soldiers. Trump did nothing. After Putin seized Crimea, Obama put sanctions on Russia. Trump promptly got rid of those sanctions for his buddy, then declared that Crimea belonged to Russia, recognizing the legitimacy of their invasion. Russia keeps creeping advancing the border with Georgia. They just literally move fences and markers at night and take land a few hundred meters at a time. This happened during Trump's administration. Trump did nothing. Belarus, which is a puppet for Putin, as he wants Ukraine to be, is run by his puppet dictator Lukashenko. Lukashenko won a clearly rigged election in 2020, leading to mass protests. A similar situation happened in Ukraine during Obama's administration, and we backed the protests and they ousted Yanukovych, and Ukraine was able to elect a free government that wasn't Putin's puppet. So when a similar situation arises while Trump was President, guess what he did? The Trump Administration has gone AWOL on Belarus. Guess who ran Putin's puppet, Yanukovych's campaign in Ukraine? Paul Manafort and Rick Gates. Then they became Trump's campaign manager and deputy campaign manager. Putin invades Ukraine, Trump calls him a genius. He's a Putin puppet. Putin had a puppet President of the US. It's fucking insane that this happened. But it did. Wake the fuck up. "We don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia." -Eric Trump, 2014
- cudgy 5y ago
  Technically videos of Clinton Making such claims violate the YouTube policy stated below, but, as you said, YouTube selectively enforces their policies only against those that are not part of the mainstream narrative. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/10835034?hl=en#zippy=%2Celection-integrity https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/10835034?hl=en#zip... “Election integrity: Content that advances false claims that widespread fraud, errors, or glitches changed the outcome of select past national elections, after final election results are officially certified. This currently applies to: Any past U.S. Presidential election The 2021 German federal election”
15155 5y ago
What's "a lot?" A lot relative to a normal day? A lot relative to a BLM rally?
_-david-_ 5y ago
A lot of people deny the 2000 and 2016 elections. Should we ban anybody who questions those election results as well?

We’re talking about Trump denying the election results, which ended with a lot of violence in the Capitol. This is absolutely misinformation that did lead to radicalization.

lenkite 5y ago

So did Clinton about the 2016 election and she still claims the same. Along with her consistent hardline that Trump is a Putin Puppet - which is misinformation that has been proved false again & again at great expense to the taxpayer - but still gets published. Zero bans for her - since she is a cherished member of the political mainstream. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trum... https://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-labels-trump-illegitimate-170547434.html https://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-labels-trump-illegiti... https://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-maintains-2016-election-160716779.html https://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-maintains-2016-electi...

ZeroGravitas 5y ago
We have proof that Trump tried to blackmail Zelensky into framing his political opponents by witholding aid they needed to defend themselves from Russia. When Putin started his invasion, Trump praised him for being smart, then praised him again, suggesting he'd captured a whole country for a small cost in sanctions. What do you think you're expressing when you say that Trump isn't a Putin puppet? That he's not made of wood?
- lenkite 5y ago
  You mean the claim that the Ukrainian President himself denied ? https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/10/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-says-there-was-no-blackmail-in-trump-call.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/10/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-s... And what about Joe Biden's proud public boast that he threatened to withhold aid if a Ukrainian prosecutor wasn't fired ? (who was investigating Burisma - the company whose board Hunter biden was on.) https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-to-fire-prosecutor-for-aid-money/C1C51BB8-3988-4070-869F-CAD3CA0E81D8.html https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-t... Anyways, it's pretty clear that there are different standards for different people for news that gets published/censored/suppressed and most importantly amplified. As Elon Musk said just today: "All news sources are partially propaganda, some more than others" - when he was told by governments (not Ukraine) that Starlink should block Russian news. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1499982913949081600 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1499982913949081600
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    Yes, the person being blackmailed, said that the person blackmailing him, who was still in a position to blackmail him about the (now realised) invasion of his country, which is likely to end with his and his family's death, and potentially could be in the same position for four more years said there was no blackmail and specifically said "“I don’t want to interfere in U.S. elections,”" I don't find that decisive on the facts given everything else. Stormy Daniels denied sleeping with Trump, because someone threatened the life of her child. It was and is still a true thing that happened.
    - lenkite 5y ago
      The transcript was released by the White House and there are no threats made to withdraw Ukrainian aid - quite unlike the explicit and damning public statement made by Biden to withdraw aid, which is also captured on Video - but fails to get any publicity whatsoever as its deeply embarrassing for the favoured media darling. You can continue to speculate further but evidence doesn't fit your claim. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/09/25/trump-releases-transcript-call-ukraine-president/2438300001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/09/25/trum...
      - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
        > Although the United States did withhold government aid to pressure Ukraine into removing the prosecutor,[5] this was the official and bipartisan policy of the federal government of the United States, which, along with the European Union, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, believed the prosecutor to be corrupt and ineffective, and too lenient in investigating companies and oligarchs, including Burisma and its owner. You've got the vice-president on tape repeating the official government line in public? And you want this to be front page news? Why? And why did Trump disagree with all those people, in the blackmail transcript you posted he seems a real fan of this person who is linked to Oligarchs and corruption. What's that all about?
        lenkite 5y ago
- coolso 5y ago
  Whatever Trump was doing to handle Putin certainly seemed to prevent Putin from doing any Ukrainian invading. I think Zelensky and the entire world would prefer more Trump phone calls and less Putin aggression right about now.
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    You know that the Russian army have been in Ukraine for Trump's entire term, right? One of his early big gaffes when running was to say "Russia won't invade Ukraine if he wins" and the journalist pointed out they already had.
    - coolso 5y ago
      You know that’s not what I meant (and likely not what Trump meant either) by “invasion” right? You can prove anyone “wrong” by playing with definitions or getting super technical about things.
    - _-david-_ 5y ago
      Putin invaded in 2014 and 2022. Putin did not do additional invasions when Trump was president, he remained in the part of Ukraine he took when Biden was vice president.
  - VikingCoder 5y ago
    Yes, because Putin was too busy enjoying the other things President Trump let him do. Taken from someone else: Trump had the US military abandon their bases in Syria and Russia promptly captured them. Russia was caught paying bounties in Afghanistan for killing American soldiers. Trump did nothing. After Putin seized Crimea, Obama put sanctions on Russia. Trump promptly got rid of those sanctions for his buddy, then declared that Crimea belonged to Russia, recognizing the legitimacy of their invasion. Russia keeps creeping advancing the border with Georgia. They just literally move fences and markers at night and take land a few hundred meters at a time. This happened during Trump's administration. Trump did nothing. Belarus, which is a puppet for Putin, as he wants Ukraine to be, is run by his puppet dictator Lukashenko. Lukashenko won a clearly rigged election in 2020, leading to mass protests. A similar situation happened in Ukraine during Obama's administration, and we backed the protests and they ousted Yanukovych, and Ukraine was able to elect a free government that wasn't Putin's puppet. So when a similar situation arises while Trump was President, guess what he did? The Trump Administration has gone AWOL on Belarus. Guess who ran Putin's puppet, Yanukovych's campaign in Ukraine? Paul Manafort and Rick Gates. Then they became Trump's campaign manager and deputy campaign manager. Putin invades Ukraine, Trump calls him a genius. He's a Putin puppet. Putin had a puppet President of the US. It's fucking insane that this happened. But it did. Wake the fuck up. "We don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia." -Eric Trump, 2014
cudgy 5y ago
Technically videos of Clinton Making such claims violate the YouTube policy stated below, but, as you said, YouTube selectively enforces their policies only against those that are not part of the mainstream narrative. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/10835034?hl=en#zippy=%2Celection-integrity https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/10835034?hl=en#zip... “Election integrity: Content that advances false claims that widespread fraud, errors, or glitches changed the outcome of select past national elections, after final election results are officially certified. This currently applies to: Any past U.S. Presidential election The 2021 German federal election”

15155 5y ago

What's "a lot?" A lot relative to a normal day? A lot relative to a BLM rally?

_-david-_ 5y ago

A lot of people deny the 2000 and 2016 elections. Should we ban anybody who questions those election results as well?