4 ms·

Have you thought about what happens if Russia looses? Ukraine is a red line for them.

phatfish 5y ago
What happens when Finland becomes the "red line" or Poland etc. Both parts of the Russian "empire" at one time or another. It has to stop somewhere. Now is as good a time as any, especially as Russia has proven they are militarily weak.
Ourgon 5y ago
The longer this war is allowed to continue, the weaker Russia will become. A weak Russia both increases the risk of nuclear weapons being used as well as that of other states - China in particular - using this weakness to try to grab some of that enormous, resource-rich area called Siberia. So, let this war be finished soon in the same way that the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan or the US intervention in Vietnam were finished: in defeat without obliteration. Let Putin loose face and be deposed so that a new generation can take over in Russia, preferably one which is not controlled by some globalist loon nor one which has dreams of reinstating some former Russian empire. Let Ukraine become the European nation it claims to be which means they need to rid themselves of corruption. Let the mistakes which were made in the de-sovietification of the former USSR be corrected, get rid of the oligarchs and their cronies. Smoke out Lukashenko from White Russia so that that nation can also learn to stand on its own feet once the Putinistas have been purged. And for the love of ${$deity} stop with the stupid, braindead anti-everything-that-is-Russian attitude that I see growing around me. I see a Tchaikovsky and Stravinsky concerts being cancelled in the Netherlands, Russian-language children's reading hours in the library in Sweden are cancelled, a university in Italy wanted to ban Dostoyevsky from its curriculum and more of such stupidity. Just stop it already, realise that Russia is part of Europe and will remain so after this war is over. Realise, also, that Dostoyevsky was imprisoned by the then-version of Putin, that Ukrainians are just as enamoured of Stravinsky and Tchaikovsky as Russians and others are, that those Russian-language reading hours in a Swedish city would most likely get the children to dislike Putinism more than that it would encourage them to follow him. If Clancy is to believed one of the bigger insults you could make to a Russian was that he was uncultured - некультурный. Let's show that we are not while making clear that it is Putin and his ilk who represent the barbarians at the gate.
- cudgy 5y ago
  > Let Putin loose face and be deposed so that a new generation can take over in Russia, preferably one which is not controlled by some globalist loon nor one which has dreams of reinstating some former Russian empire. After being potentially devastated by the sanctions and embarassed by the world, there are no guarantees that anyone taking over from Putin would be more reasonable, less nationalistic, or less likely to utilize nuclear strikes. More chaos and instability in Russia after a Putin exit could backfire with a random cast of characters gaining power. A risky roll of your favorite multi-sided dice.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > After being potentially devastated by the sanctions and embarassed by the world, there are no guarantees that anyone taking over from Putin would be more reasonable, less nationalistic, or less likely to utilize nuclear strikes. More chaos and instability in Russia after a Putin exit could backfire with a random cast of characters gaining power. A risky roll of your favorite multi-sided dice. It's also worth noting a Putin victory won't necessarily lead to some kind of stability. For a brief time Ukraine had nukes, but gave them up. The lesson of this invasion to every medium-size power next to a giant will be: if you value your independence, get nukes, and don't give them up.
- ynfnehf 5y ago
  The cancelling of Russian-language reading hours in Sweden was not due to the war. That was fake news. Please be more careful about spreading misinformation in the future.
  - Ourgon 5y ago
    Please be more critical in accepting excuses for misdirected attempts at supporting a cause. I read that "excuse" as well and was not convinced - it is not hard to find someone to volunteer to read stories to children.
    - ynfnehf 5y ago
tablespoon 5y ago
> Have you thought about what happens if Russia looses? Ukraine is a red line for them. Honestly? The Russians go home. Putin makes threats, but they're to scare his adversaries into pulling their punches out of fear, while he does what he was always going to do. If his goal is to rebuild the Soviet empire, it's an automatic failure if he escalates until Moscow is a smoking pit.

What happens when Finland becomes the "red line" or Poland etc. Both parts of the Russian "empire" at one time or another. It has to stop somewhere. Now is as good a time as any, especially as Russia has proven they are militarily weak.

Ourgon 5y ago

The longer this war is allowed to continue, the weaker Russia will become. A weak Russia both increases the risk of nuclear weapons being used as well as that of other states - China in particular - using this weakness to try to grab some of that enormous, resource-rich area called Siberia. So, let this war be finished soon in the same way that the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan or the US intervention in Vietnam were finished: in defeat without obliteration. Let Putin loose face and be deposed so that a new generation can take over in Russia, preferably one which is not controlled by some globalist loon nor one which has dreams of reinstating some former Russian empire. Let Ukraine become the European nation it claims to be which means they need to rid themselves of corruption. Let the mistakes which were made in the de-sovietification of the former USSR be corrected, get rid of the oligarchs and their cronies. Smoke out Lukashenko from White Russia so that that nation can also learn to stand on its own feet once the Putinistas have been purged. And for the love of ${$deity} stop with the stupid, braindead anti-everything-that-is-Russian attitude that I see growing around me. I see a Tchaikovsky and Stravinsky concerts being cancelled in the Netherlands, Russian-language children's reading hours in the library in Sweden are cancelled, a university in Italy wanted to ban Dostoyevsky from its curriculum and more of such stupidity. Just stop it already, realise that Russia is part of Europe and will remain so after this war is over. Realise, also, that Dostoyevsky was imprisoned by the then-version of Putin, that Ukrainians are just as enamoured of Stravinsky and Tchaikovsky as Russians and others are, that those Russian-language reading hours in a Swedish city would most likely get the children to dislike Putinism more than that it would encourage them to follow him. If Clancy is to believed one of the bigger insults you could make to a Russian was that he was uncultured - некультурный. Let's show that we are not while making clear that it is Putin and his ilk who represent the barbarians at the gate.

cudgy 5y ago
> Let Putin loose face and be deposed so that a new generation can take over in Russia, preferably one which is not controlled by some globalist loon nor one which has dreams of reinstating some former Russian empire. After being potentially devastated by the sanctions and embarassed by the world, there are no guarantees that anyone taking over from Putin would be more reasonable, less nationalistic, or less likely to utilize nuclear strikes. More chaos and instability in Russia after a Putin exit could backfire with a random cast of characters gaining power. A risky roll of your favorite multi-sided dice.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > After being potentially devastated by the sanctions and embarassed by the world, there are no guarantees that anyone taking over from Putin would be more reasonable, less nationalistic, or less likely to utilize nuclear strikes. More chaos and instability in Russia after a Putin exit could backfire with a random cast of characters gaining power. A risky roll of your favorite multi-sided dice. It's also worth noting a Putin victory won't necessarily lead to some kind of stability. For a brief time Ukraine had nukes, but gave them up. The lesson of this invasion to every medium-size power next to a giant will be: if you value your independence, get nukes, and don't give them up.
ynfnehf 5y ago
The cancelling of Russian-language reading hours in Sweden was not due to the war. That was fake news. Please be more careful about spreading misinformation in the future.
- Ourgon 5y ago
  Please be more critical in accepting excuses for misdirected attempts at supporting a cause. I read that "excuse" as well and was not convinced - it is not hard to find someone to volunteer to read stories to children.
  - ynfnehf 5y ago

tablespoon 5y ago

> Have you thought about what happens if Russia looses? Ukraine is a red line for them. Honestly? The Russians go home. Putin makes threats, but they're to scare his adversaries into pulling their punches out of fear, while he does what he was always going to do. If his goal is to rebuild the Soviet empire, it's an automatic failure if he escalates until Moscow is a smoking pit.