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Is Putin a crook or a run-of-the-mill Russian leader? Most of leaders in Russia are like this. Navalny, for example, is ultranationalist who said Crimea and Don

by glogla 5y ago

Is Putin a crook or a run-of-the-mill Russian leader? Most of leaders in Russia are like this. Navalny, for example, is ultranationalist who said Crimea and Donbas are 100 % Russian and "should be kept".

unmole 5y ago
If not the whole article, please read the chronology of events: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Chronology_of_events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Chr... It is completely insane.
- glogla 5y ago
  > It is completely insane. Oh it is! I would just expect the same from any Russian president, really.
timeon 5y ago
I think that your view is too simplistic. Navalny's views are not that clear [1] - certainly not ultranationalistic. [1]: https://ukraineworld.org/articles/opinions/what-does-aleksey-navalny-really-think-about-ukraine-crimea-and-donbas https://ukraineworld.org/articles/opinions/what-does-aleksey...
- dogma1138 5y ago
  Navalny is an ultranationalist who run an overtly racist anti immigration campaign when he tried to become the mayor of Moscow. He is a political prisoner however the west should really stop trying to set him up as some sort of savior. The problem with Russia isn’t the politicians it’s the complete lack of any government institutions that facilitate even the slightest shred of collective decision making. Russia now is more autocratic than the USSR ever was because the USSR at least had party politics and the massive bureaucratic machine that needed to be appeased. Russia as a nation is utterly broken it’s far closer to North Korea than to say China. And the worst thing is that I don’t see a way out for them and for us from all of this at all. Taking out Putin isn’t going to fix things it would be a bandaid at most.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > He is a political prisoner however the west should really stop trying to set him up as some sort of savior. Is the West doing that? I’ve literally never seen anything from Western government or media saying anything positive about his platform/program, what he offers Russia, or anything, only that (1) he’s Putin’s most popular opponent, and (2) Putin tried to murder him, and then threw him in prison. The West has set him up as a symbol of Putin’s authoritarianism (well, mostly Putin did that, but the West highlights it), not as a savior.
    - dogma1138 5y ago
      He was nominated for a bloody Nobel peace prize and was a serious candidate. European leaders, the media and plenty of wanna be political analysts on the internet are definitely skewing his story completely. To me he is just another asshole that isn’t Putin, and whilst I can agree that his experience in prison and everything that led up to that including being poisoned might have finally knocked some sense into him but based on his actual political career in Russia I wouldn’t want him in any position of power. The problem is that I don’t see a way to fix Russia that doesn’t include a massive war and a post war Germany like situation. This isn’t about its people on an individual level many if not most aren’t different than you or me. Collectively as a nation at this point it’s beyond redemption simply because how utterly broken it is on every level. The USSR at least was driven by an ideology based on a universal political/social theory good bad it doesn’t matter. Today I have no idea what Russia stands for and that’s the most dangerous situation I can think off because it means that nothing is off the table. Russia is a nation that has been failing upwards for 2 centuries and it managed to fail upwards to the point in which it has a nuclear arsenal large enough to obliterate human civilization as we know it.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > He was nominated for a bloody Nobel peace prize and was a serious candidate. If you’ve heard of someone being a nominee was who didn't win, despite the 50-year non-disclosure rule, it's usually a fringe group with that disrespects the prize and the process and is desperate for attention, not a serious nominee or otherwise representative of the general view of the West.
dreinhardt 5y ago
Nice whataboutism, bro.

by glogla 5y ago

unmole 5y ago

If not the whole article, please read the chronology of events: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Chronology_of_events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Chr... It is completely insane.

glogla 5y ago
> It is completely insane. Oh it is! I would just expect the same from any Russian president, really.

timeon 5y ago

I think that your view is too simplistic. Navalny's views are not that clear [1] - certainly not ultranationalistic. [1]: https://ukraineworld.org/articles/opinions/what-does-aleksey-navalny-really-think-about-ukraine-crimea-and-donbas https://ukraineworld.org/articles/opinions/what-does-aleksey...

dogma1138 5y ago
Navalny is an ultranationalist who run an overtly racist anti immigration campaign when he tried to become the mayor of Moscow. He is a political prisoner however the west should really stop trying to set him up as some sort of savior. The problem with Russia isn’t the politicians it’s the complete lack of any government institutions that facilitate even the slightest shred of collective decision making. Russia now is more autocratic than the USSR ever was because the USSR at least had party politics and the massive bureaucratic machine that needed to be appeased. Russia as a nation is utterly broken it’s far closer to North Korea than to say China. And the worst thing is that I don’t see a way out for them and for us from all of this at all. Taking out Putin isn’t going to fix things it would be a bandaid at most.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > He is a political prisoner however the west should really stop trying to set him up as some sort of savior. Is the West doing that? I’ve literally never seen anything from Western government or media saying anything positive about his platform/program, what he offers Russia, or anything, only that (1) he’s Putin’s most popular opponent, and (2) Putin tried to murder him, and then threw him in prison. The West has set him up as a symbol of Putin’s authoritarianism (well, mostly Putin did that, but the West highlights it), not as a savior.
  - dogma1138 5y ago
    He was nominated for a bloody Nobel peace prize and was a serious candidate. European leaders, the media and plenty of wanna be political analysts on the internet are definitely skewing his story completely. To me he is just another asshole that isn’t Putin, and whilst I can agree that his experience in prison and everything that led up to that including being poisoned might have finally knocked some sense into him but based on his actual political career in Russia I wouldn’t want him in any position of power. The problem is that I don’t see a way to fix Russia that doesn’t include a massive war and a post war Germany like situation. This isn’t about its people on an individual level many if not most aren’t different than you or me. Collectively as a nation at this point it’s beyond redemption simply because how utterly broken it is on every level. The USSR at least was driven by an ideology based on a universal political/social theory good bad it doesn’t matter. Today I have no idea what Russia stands for and that’s the most dangerous situation I can think off because it means that nothing is off the table. Russia is a nation that has been failing upwards for 2 centuries and it managed to fail upwards to the point in which it has a nuclear arsenal large enough to obliterate human civilization as we know it.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > He was nominated for a bloody Nobel peace prize and was a serious candidate. If you’ve heard of someone being a nominee was who didn't win, despite the 50-year non-disclosure rule, it's usually a fringe group with that disrespects the prize and the process and is desperate for attention, not a serious nominee or otherwise representative of the general view of the West.

dreinhardt 5y ago

Nice whataboutism, bro.