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This whole thing makes me question the western/NATO motives of not pursuing de-escalation. Wouldn’t agreeing to Putin’s NATO non expansion terms be better than
by mercy_dude 5y ago
This whole thing makes me question the western/NATO motives of not pursuing de-escalation. Wouldn’t agreeing to Putin’s NATO non expansion terms be better than letting your economic competitor to basically establish monopoly on the entire Russian economic atmosphere?
- Tade0 5y agoThat would imply that sovereign states don't get to decide who they're aligned with. As seen with Ukraine that in turn would make them first targets for an invasion. Such a decision would be anything but de-escalation.
- cudgy 5y agoThe reality is that Sovereignty is relative to how close a country is to the border of super power nations. Do you think Mexico or Canada can ally with any nation or join any military alliance they wish?
- Tade0 5y agoI don't know about Mexico or Canada, but Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland are all both Russia's neighbours and NATO members. Either Russia is not a superpower or it's not that relevant.
- cudgy 5y agoOr Russia does not find those countries to be enough of a threat either due to size, military force, existing relationships, geographical boundaries, or a multitude of other factors. Or maybe Russia has begrudgingly accepted those countries joining NATO, but the last straw was a huge neighbor like Ukraine joining that is strategically important to them.
- serpix 5y agoSupplication to a tyrant worked only to incite unprovoked invasion and war crimes. The west believed that integrating Russia through economy and trade would bring us together. It only revealed Russia is not yet ready and still believes everybody is out to get them like some traumatised recluse. Enough is enough, the west has awoken to the sad reality that Russia has not changed. Also the Baltic sovereign nations remember very very very well what it was like under Russian oppression. They are not going back to that. Finnish people remember burning their homes ahead of the advancing tank armies. We remember both wars and many of us have the memories in our blood.
- cudgy 5y agoYou do realize that Russia has more nukes than any country in the world, right? Whether you like it or not, cornering Russia in this way and not offering a way out of this mess without some dignity is an invitation for Putin to do something catastrophic and desperate. Big talk like this is foolish and could end up with a nuclear nightmare regardless of which side is right.
- glogla 5y agoMaybe nuclear war is better than letting Russia win.
- hypertele-Xii 5y agoPutin isn't some madman sitting on a launch button. No matter how desperate he gets, he needs military command to follow through on an order to start world war 3. Considering how superbly Russia is fucking up a simple ground invasion, I'd say any threat of nuclear escalation is empty at worst. Putin says roll tanks into Ukraine? Yeah fine, military commanders oblige. They won't lose much over it. Putin says nuke the world? Well, about that... Even military commanders still want to survive.
- cudgy 5y agoI know enough about human nature and what people (and especially a group of generals) are willing to do when cornered that pushing Russia too far could be one of the worst strategic mistakes in recent world history.
- bigDinosaur 5y agoPutin's 'non-expansion' terms actually mean rolling NATO back. Sure, it'd probably 'work' in the sense that he'd be able to restore the Russian Empire as a result. I guess he might be happy with just that.