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Yes, civilian housing is being deliberately hit with shells, thermobaric bombs and cluster bombs. There are no military targets nearby. This is a campaign of te

Yes, civilian housing is being deliberately hit with shells, thermobaric bombs and cluster bombs. There are no military targets nearby. This is a campaign of terror similar to Aleppo and Grozny and the end state of cities will be the same.

throwaway290 5y ago
Are you basing this off watching news? Some media cried mass murder from day 1, while I had been in touch with people living in the East and first-hand information begged to differ. Now they finally decided to leave their city where active skirmishes were ongoing, so I don't have first-hand info anymore. Reportedly calm so far where they are (I hope they will leave the country, but men are not allowed to leave and his wife does not want to go without).
- grey-area 5y ago
  I’m basing that on multiple videos from Ukrainian civilians on twitter showing tower blocks, shopping centres and parks being shelled or bombed and civilians dead, the one that struck me was repeated shelling of the side of a tower block by tanks or artillery - that was targeted and aimed at killing civilians. Very hard to fake and no real incentive to do so. Definitely only in certain cities right now but as the war spreads the atrocities will get worse in contested areas. But it’s a very hard decision to leave everything behind and travel is dangerous too. I hope they will be ok and I’m sorry your friends are in such a horrible position.
- bitcharmer 5y ago
  Do we have the same internet mate? You can look it up yourself... https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t6p7e7/russians_are_destroying_residential_buildings_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t6p7e7/russians_ar... https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/t634ff/drone_video_on_destroyed_building/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/t634...
  - throwaway290 5y ago
    I have people on the ground, I trust them more than social media.
    - grey-area 5y ago
      If you have doubts about what the Russian army will do under Putin, look at Grozny and Aleppo, and their actions so far. This will become total war - there are no limits and civilians in cities are at severe risk. Your sources have a very local view and may well be safe for now but not later. Unless they are in Western Ukraine they are at risk of carpet bombing as Russia gets more desperate.
      - throwaway290 5y ago
        I never questioned that civilians are at risk, especially in cities. This concern is repeated by my contacts, most of whom are outside of cities. Carpet bombing would be very bad, as Serbia/Montenegro bombings have shown civilian deaths happen and I have less certainty about the precision of Russian military compared to NATO's. As to my sources, sure, and I would want to know first-hand information to the contrary, but I am dubious about social and mass media links. I am amazed by the number of people willing to say "your friends are wrong, they are being killed" while giving reddit links in support.
        grey-area 5y ago
        Nobody is saying your friends are being killed or even bombed right now (depends entirely where they live), we're pointing out that civilians are being bombed indiscriminately by Russia, this is likely to vastly increase in the coming weeks (or months and years if this last that long), and anyone in a city should get out now if they possibly can. Putin will not give up, he will escalate as he has done in the past. He destroyed an entire region of his own country (Chechnya) in order to save face. He views Ukraine as a rebellious region like Chechnya which must be put down by any means necessary. The evidence is there, if you care to look. Frankly your distrust of social media is tending towards paranoia - civilians don't have the means or inclination to mass fake videos, I'd say most are valid reports. Yes videos will be mislabelled (e.g. wrong region) and repeated without question sometimes, but some of the evidence is very clear and very hard to fake.

throwaway290 5y ago

Are you basing this off watching news? Some media cried mass murder from day 1, while I had been in touch with people living in the East and first-hand information begged to differ. Now they finally decided to leave their city where active skirmishes were ongoing, so I don't have first-hand info anymore. Reportedly calm so far where they are (I hope they will leave the country, but men are not allowed to leave and his wife does not want to go without).

grey-area 5y ago
I’m basing that on multiple videos from Ukrainian civilians on twitter showing tower blocks, shopping centres and parks being shelled or bombed and civilians dead, the one that struck me was repeated shelling of the side of a tower block by tanks or artillery - that was targeted and aimed at killing civilians. Very hard to fake and no real incentive to do so. Definitely only in certain cities right now but as the war spreads the atrocities will get worse in contested areas. But it’s a very hard decision to leave everything behind and travel is dangerous too. I hope they will be ok and I’m sorry your friends are in such a horrible position.
bitcharmer 5y ago
Do we have the same internet mate? You can look it up yourself... https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t6p7e7/russians_are_destroying_residential_buildings_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t6p7e7/russians_ar... https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/t634ff/drone_video_on_destroyed_building/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/t634...
- throwaway290 5y ago
  I have people on the ground, I trust them more than social media.
  - grey-area 5y ago
    If you have doubts about what the Russian army will do under Putin, look at Grozny and Aleppo, and their actions so far. This will become total war - there are no limits and civilians in cities are at severe risk. Your sources have a very local view and may well be safe for now but not later. Unless they are in Western Ukraine they are at risk of carpet bombing as Russia gets more desperate.
    - throwaway290 5y ago
      I never questioned that civilians are at risk, especially in cities. This concern is repeated by my contacts, most of whom are outside of cities. Carpet bombing would be very bad, as Serbia/Montenegro bombings have shown civilian deaths happen and I have less certainty about the precision of Russian military compared to NATO's. As to my sources, sure, and I would want to know first-hand information to the contrary, but I am dubious about social and mass media links. I am amazed by the number of people willing to say "your friends are wrong, they are being killed" while giving reddit links in support.
      - grey-area 5y ago
        Nobody is saying your friends are being killed or even bombed right now (depends entirely where they live), we're pointing out that civilians are being bombed indiscriminately by Russia, this is likely to vastly increase in the coming weeks (or months and years if this last that long), and anyone in a city should get out now if they possibly can. Putin will not give up, he will escalate as he has done in the past. He destroyed an entire region of his own country (Chechnya) in order to save face. He views Ukraine as a rebellious region like Chechnya which must be put down by any means necessary. The evidence is there, if you care to look. Frankly your distrust of social media is tending towards paranoia - civilians don't have the means or inclination to mass fake videos, I'd say most are valid reports. Yes videos will be mislabelled (e.g. wrong region) and repeated without question sometimes, but some of the evidence is very clear and very hard to fake.