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Wasn't their goal to stop the handover of power to Biden? Weren't they using force to achieve that goal by attacking the capitol building to stop congress from

by pfisch 5y ago

Wasn't their goal to stop the handover of power to Biden? Weren't they using force to achieve that goal by attacking the capitol building to stop congress from being able to proceed? How is that not an attempt to end democracy. An insurrection. The ringleaders seemed to be well aware that the objective was to invalidate the election and keep trump president. How is that not an insurrection?

lliamander 5y ago
Leaving aside the fact that these people believe democracy had already ended, and that they saw themselves as attempting to save democracy, how does this plan actually work? Do they just sit in the capitol and declare Trump king? Maybe hold congress members hostage? Who in the federal government or military is going to go along with that? I just don't see it as a realistic threat to our system of government.
- hatware 5y ago
  But AOC's LIFE was in DANGER! It's pretty wild to see the mass denial of hyperbole... Like folks, do you have any idea what would happen if people really wanted to overthrow the government? You'd be kidnapped before you know what happened.
- pfisch 5y ago
  If they killed the speaker and a bunch of representatives Trump would declare martial law and lock down congress. No handover ever took place and it is very unclear what would happen next. The electoral count act is now out the window entirely and Trump has a bunch of the GOP claiming the election is fraudulent based on no evidence but that doesn't matter. Eventually after Trump has it all set up the house reconvenes and picks Trump as president because GOP has the most delegations and the vote was "fraudulent". All that really needs to happen is to create enough disruption for Trump and his allies to find a way to set aside the vote and let the house pick based on number of delegations. The brooks brothers riot basically did something similar. Created enough disruption to stop a recount.
  - lliamander 5y ago
    Martial law was effectively declared in DC for months after January 6th anyway. No assumption of power by Trump. Killing members of congress doesn't really change the fact that Pence was responsible for counting the votes, and the process would likely have resumed as quickly as possible. This explanation is just so hand-wavy and doesn't really to capture what would likely happen in the case that a bunch of random Trump voters killed members of congress. Now matter which way you slice it, any attempt by Trump or Pence to overturning official election results (even if they were fraudulent) was made impossible by the breach of the capitol.
    - pfisch 5y ago
      They wanted to kill Pence, and the speaker of the house, and most of the democrats. If those goals had been achieved it is very unclear what would've happened. Martial law was not declared after Jan 6th and the legal handover of power had already successfully occurred.

by pfisch 5y ago

lliamander 5y ago

Leaving aside the fact that these people believe democracy had already ended, and that they saw themselves as attempting to save democracy, how does this plan actually work? Do they just sit in the capitol and declare Trump king? Maybe hold congress members hostage? Who in the federal government or military is going to go along with that? I just don't see it as a realistic threat to our system of government.

hatware 5y ago
But AOC's LIFE was in DANGER! It's pretty wild to see the mass denial of hyperbole... Like folks, do you have any idea what would happen if people really wanted to overthrow the government? You'd be kidnapped before you know what happened.
pfisch 5y ago
If they killed the speaker and a bunch of representatives Trump would declare martial law and lock down congress. No handover ever took place and it is very unclear what would happen next. The electoral count act is now out the window entirely and Trump has a bunch of the GOP claiming the election is fraudulent based on no evidence but that doesn't matter. Eventually after Trump has it all set up the house reconvenes and picks Trump as president because GOP has the most delegations and the vote was "fraudulent". All that really needs to happen is to create enough disruption for Trump and his allies to find a way to set aside the vote and let the house pick based on number of delegations. The brooks brothers riot basically did something similar. Created enough disruption to stop a recount.
- lliamander 5y ago
  Martial law was effectively declared in DC for months after January 6th anyway. No assumption of power by Trump. Killing members of congress doesn't really change the fact that Pence was responsible for counting the votes, and the process would likely have resumed as quickly as possible. This explanation is just so hand-wavy and doesn't really to capture what would likely happen in the case that a bunch of random Trump voters killed members of congress. Now matter which way you slice it, any attempt by Trump or Pence to overturning official election results (even if they were fraudulent) was made impossible by the breach of the capitol.
  - pfisch 5y ago
    They wanted to kill Pence, and the speaker of the house, and most of the democrats. If those goals had been achieved it is very unclear what would've happened. Martial law was not declared after Jan 6th and the legal handover of power had already successfully occurred.