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> strangulation via power projection. Cool metaphor there, but exactly what do you have in mind? Let's say every single neighbor of Russia becomes a NATO membe

> strangulation via power projection. Cool metaphor there, but exactly what do you have in mind? Let's say every single neighbor of Russia becomes a NATO member, how does that strangulation via power projection work? Or in our concrete case, let's say Ukraine becomes a NATO member, who is going to threaten Russia, and how? Preferably in more concrete terms, rather than metaphors.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
In concrete examples if a future conflict of interests arises: They could shut down more airspace to russian reinforcement of allies. They could more easily cut off access access ports in the black sea. They could invade Belarus on a new front. They could move conventional and nuclear bombers closer to moscow. They could arm Russian revolutionaries using the land boarder. Being encircled makes it harder for Russia to respond to many many threats. In the last 20 years, the US attacked and toppled Russian friendly governments in Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, and lybia. Close bases were very helpful in each case.
- credit_guy 5y ago
  All these could be valid grievances. Great powers keep poking and prodding each other all the time. Russia does all sorts of chicanery back. They are mounting right not psy ops in Eastern Europe (e.g. the current "word" over there is that they are in danger of being nuked because of the US bases, and it's all US's fault, they'd be just fine if US got out of there... and some people swallow that stuff hook, line and sinker). Russia and the US spy each other. The US sanctioned Russia because of the Manitsky assassination. One can easily claim that this is economic warfare, and the if it weren't for that assassination, some other pretext could have been found. On the other hand Russia does kill people (and in the process they increase the popular awareness to such technical tems as Polonium and Novichok). This is again, just to say Russia and the US keep taking shots of each other. That does not mean Russia needs to start a real war, where tens of thousands of people die. And if Russia does, that's in no way the US's fault.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    Ukraine was a game of chicken where Russia had something to lose from backing down and they do had nothing to lose from backing down

s1artibartfast 5y ago

In concrete examples if a future conflict of interests arises: They could shut down more airspace to russian reinforcement of allies. They could more easily cut off access access ports in the black sea. They could invade Belarus on a new front. They could move conventional and nuclear bombers closer to moscow. They could arm Russian revolutionaries using the land boarder. Being encircled makes it harder for Russia to respond to many many threats. In the last 20 years, the US attacked and toppled Russian friendly governments in Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, and lybia. Close bases were very helpful in each case.

credit_guy 5y ago
All these could be valid grievances. Great powers keep poking and prodding each other all the time. Russia does all sorts of chicanery back. They are mounting right not psy ops in Eastern Europe (e.g. the current "word" over there is that they are in danger of being nuked because of the US bases, and it's all US's fault, they'd be just fine if US got out of there... and some people swallow that stuff hook, line and sinker). Russia and the US spy each other. The US sanctioned Russia because of the Manitsky assassination. One can easily claim that this is economic warfare, and the if it weren't for that assassination, some other pretext could have been found. On the other hand Russia does kill people (and in the process they increase the popular awareness to such technical tems as Polonium and Novichok). This is again, just to say Russia and the US keep taking shots of each other. That does not mean Russia needs to start a real war, where tens of thousands of people die. And if Russia does, that's in no way the US's fault.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Ukraine was a game of chicken where Russia had something to lose from backing down and they do had nothing to lose from backing down