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Russia has a long history of corruption going back to the time when the princes under the Mongol Empire beginning in 1219 were forced to collect taxes on their

Russia has a long history of corruption going back to the time when the princes under the Mongol Empire beginning in 1219 were forced to collect taxes on their behalf. Unlike in the rest of Europe and China, the princes during this time ended up controlling large regions relatively uncontested, responsible only for extracting maximum output from their vassal and putting little pressure on their power structures to be efficient to outside threats. This structure has been recreated in each successive iteration of Russia government, up to the oligarchs today. Or so goes the general historical consensus. Russia ranked 136th out of 180 in Transparency International's corruption index.

avgcorrection 5y ago
You just used the open European Plains/Steppes to explain a supposedly incompetent Russian air force, specifically your spitball theory about incompetent VKS pilots. A more humble person might just go back about thirty years and use the post-Soviet oligarch looting in order to explain the corruption and in turn the VKS pilots... only relatively more humble, but still. Are you sure that you don’t want to rein in the grand narration just a little bit?
- throw__away7391 5y ago
  Not incompetent, but not expendable, as in military command feeling it is better for their careers if they don't send powerful people's kids to die. Why are you so hung up on defending Russia?
  - avgcorrection 5y ago
    On second thought, this theory of complacency on the European Plains makes even less sense when one considers the invasions that Russia/Soviet Union had to fight back in the 20th century. The border with the rest of Europe is hell to defend—it’s basically anti-Switzerland. And in that light the historical line that is being drawn makes even less sense. > Why are you so hung up on defending Russia? It’s revealing that you frame or interpret this discussion as being about either attacking or defending Russia. Why is it/ought it to be about that?
    - jmnicolas 5y ago
      It's the typical "you're either with us or against us" mentality that is very common nowadays. It's very difficult to be listened to when you have a reasonable position (on any subject really). I believe this mentality is created by the massive propaganda we have been subjected to since a couple decades.
      - phatfish 5y ago
        There is a war taking place, that tends to polarize opinion more than usual, whether in the last couple of decades, or centuries.
        cudgy 5y ago
        So, join the polarization in defeat because everyone is doing it? This is exactly when we need to be more cognizant of jingoism and the likely encroachment upon freedom and positing of dubious facts that the government and institutions will manufacture while the population is distracted not paying close attention.
      - throw__away7391 5y ago
        No, not "with us or against us" just genuinely surprised at the level of anger being expressed by avgcorrection to what to me seemed pretty innocuous speculation: I think it's possible that the status of the VKS pilots is contributing to a reluctance to fly them into danger for political reasons. Russia is famous for corruption, seems a weird thing to defend. Even in the US there are at least some well-connected sons getting seats in fighter jets, and "paid drivers" have existed in Formula 1 since forever. Doesn't seem too far fetched, but right or wrong hardly worth any kind of attack. Additionally I never said the pilots would be incompetent--in my experience when people start responding to accusations that were never made, something else is going on in their head. For what it's worth, I like Russia. I'm ethnically from a former Soviet state and although I have very little cultural connection to it, whenever I meet Russians anywhere in the world they've been instantly friendly towards me just based on my name. Even with this happening I hope that someday within my lifetime EU/Russian relation can be fully normalized.
- ngcc_hk 5y ago
  You are right to zoom in. But the basic culture abd repeat pattern of Russia and chinese empire is astonishing as well. It might not be used to explain Air Force but the general picture is still there. For this round, expanding an empire just be force is odd, except for Mongolian empire. Usually you start with soft bit. Seems this round is very Mongolian.
  - avgcorrection 5y ago
    This is difficult to read.

avgcorrection 5y ago

You just used the open European Plains/Steppes to explain a supposedly incompetent Russian air force, specifically your spitball theory about incompetent VKS pilots. A more humble person might just go back about thirty years and use the post-Soviet oligarch looting in order to explain the corruption and in turn the VKS pilots... only relatively more humble, but still. Are you sure that you don’t want to rein in the grand narration just a little bit?

throw__away7391 5y ago
Not incompetent, but not expendable, as in military command feeling it is better for their careers if they don't send powerful people's kids to die. Why are you so hung up on defending Russia?
- avgcorrection 5y ago
  On second thought, this theory of complacency on the European Plains makes even less sense when one considers the invasions that Russia/Soviet Union had to fight back in the 20th century. The border with the rest of Europe is hell to defend—it’s basically anti-Switzerland. And in that light the historical line that is being drawn makes even less sense. > Why are you so hung up on defending Russia? It’s revealing that you frame or interpret this discussion as being about either attacking or defending Russia. Why is it/ought it to be about that?
  - jmnicolas 5y ago
    It's the typical "you're either with us or against us" mentality that is very common nowadays. It's very difficult to be listened to when you have a reasonable position (on any subject really). I believe this mentality is created by the massive propaganda we have been subjected to since a couple decades.
    - phatfish 5y ago
      There is a war taking place, that tends to polarize opinion more than usual, whether in the last couple of decades, or centuries.
      - cudgy 5y ago
        So, join the polarization in defeat because everyone is doing it? This is exactly when we need to be more cognizant of jingoism and the likely encroachment upon freedom and positing of dubious facts that the government and institutions will manufacture while the population is distracted not paying close attention.
    - throw__away7391 5y ago
      No, not "with us or against us" just genuinely surprised at the level of anger being expressed by avgcorrection to what to me seemed pretty innocuous speculation: I think it's possible that the status of the VKS pilots is contributing to a reluctance to fly them into danger for political reasons. Russia is famous for corruption, seems a weird thing to defend. Even in the US there are at least some well-connected sons getting seats in fighter jets, and "paid drivers" have existed in Formula 1 since forever. Doesn't seem too far fetched, but right or wrong hardly worth any kind of attack. Additionally I never said the pilots would be incompetent--in my experience when people start responding to accusations that were never made, something else is going on in their head. For what it's worth, I like Russia. I'm ethnically from a former Soviet state and although I have very little cultural connection to it, whenever I meet Russians anywhere in the world they've been instantly friendly towards me just based on my name. Even with this happening I hope that someday within my lifetime EU/Russian relation can be fully normalized.
ngcc_hk 5y ago
You are right to zoom in. But the basic culture abd repeat pattern of Russia and chinese empire is astonishing as well. It might not be used to explain Air Force but the general picture is still there. For this round, expanding an empire just be force is odd, except for Mongolian empire. Usually you start with soft bit. Seems this round is very Mongolian.
- avgcorrection 5y ago
  This is difficult to read.