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> you won’t even be aware of the jobs you’ll be looked over for because you didn’t go to the right school, and those “right schools” pre-select based on backgro

> you won’t even be aware of the jobs you’ll be looked over for because you didn’t go to the right school, and those “right schools” pre-select based on background. I didn't believe in class until I met rich people and got to know them quite well. For Dutch people, all I say is: go to Delft for university. The UvA sucks, the VU sucks, Eindhoven sucks, Twente is irrelevant. Tilburg? No. Groningen? What? Rotterdam: only if you're doing Economics. Leiden? Too close to Delft. I know how it sounds, but a recruiter also only looks 10 seconds at your resume. It shouldn't be this way, especially because uni's in The Netherlands are quite close in quality. But when it comes to recruiting, prestige signaling allows you to get the foot in the door and apparently Delft has the prestige. It was painful seeing/hearing this and experiencing it second hand as someone who graduated from both universities of Amsterdam (VU and UvA). Class was invisible to me in The Netherlands, and then I met rich people. I wish I hadn't. Though the people are awesome, so I am really happy knowing them. So on a personal level I wish I had, but in terms of outlook on Dutch society: I don't want to know (what I consider to be) the truth. It's depressing information and I don't know what I can do about it other than knowing that if I ever get kids they'll probably get a massive advantage in learning educational things really young. Definition of rich: at least fat FIRE.

wahnfrieden 5y ago
Hurrah for your class consciousness, feed it. Nothing about this is an inevitable rule
- mettamage 5y ago
  > Nothing about this is an inevitable rule I agree. > Hurrah for your class consciousness, feed it. I don't need to feed it. What I need to do is find interesting specific sub-cultures. That's where the consciousness arises, class is just one of the many.
vincentmarle 5y ago
If you really want Dutch employers to drool over your resume, get an American degree.
- cardiology-fat 5y ago
  Nah, Oxford.
  - mettamage 5y ago
    Oxford would work better I think.
schrijver 5y ago
> go to Delft for university Hmm… Well, that only works for degrees in engineering, it’s a ‘Technical University’. Also, Delft is probably a great university, but it doesn’t strike me as more prestigious than the other Universities you mention. For what it’s worth, the members of the Royal family all attended Leiden University. As did the current prime minister. Most ministers of justice in recent history attended Leiden University and were a member of Minerva, a conservative student society. Still, I wouldn’t consider Leiden a particularly prestigious university—none of the Dutch universities are, because they are all relatively accessible and publicly funded. Instead, the well-connected manage to create their own little groups inside of student life. Like the aforementioned Minerva, which like other student societies (that exist in Delft as well), has students make small clusters (jaarclub, dispuut), with all kinds of barriers to entry. I presume the richest kids cluster together. People then rely on these connections throughout their career. To me it sounds like you met a group of rich people who were friends in Delft University (and I presume already rich) and relied on this network afterwards: this is a pattern that reproduces itself at other Universities. And inversely, attending Delft University is by no means a guarantee that you can profit from this mechanism. It’s interesting what you say of not seeing class differences before, I think it’s quite common in The Netherlands. The image the Dutch have of their society is one with very little class differences. This might be a comforting idea in day to day live (as you mention) but it also makes it hard to do something about the unfair situations that persist.
- mettamage 5y ago
  Interesting thoughts, I’ll think about this. I don’t have a well thought out response to it at the moment.
skrebbel 5y ago
Fwiw I went to Eindhoven and I never ever got the idea someone got better opportunities because they went to Delft. Everyone I know considers them to be similar. And, for context, I know quite some rich/successful people.
- mettamage 5y ago
  Fair enough, the issue with these type of things is that there’s not enough data because it’s quite a sensitive topic. Another issue is that we might be talking about different things without realizing it. It’s my experience that it happens a lit with this topic.

wahnfrieden 5y ago

Hurrah for your class consciousness, feed it. Nothing about this is an inevitable rule

mettamage 5y ago
> Nothing about this is an inevitable rule I agree. > Hurrah for your class consciousness, feed it. I don't need to feed it. What I need to do is find interesting specific sub-cultures. That's where the consciousness arises, class is just one of the many.

vincentmarle 5y ago

If you really want Dutch employers to drool over your resume, get an American degree.

cardiology-fat 5y ago
Nah, Oxford.
- mettamage 5y ago
  Oxford would work better I think.

schrijver 5y ago

> go to Delft for university Hmm… Well, that only works for degrees in engineering, it’s a ‘Technical University’. Also, Delft is probably a great university, but it doesn’t strike me as more prestigious than the other Universities you mention. For what it’s worth, the members of the Royal family all attended Leiden University. As did the current prime minister. Most ministers of justice in recent history attended Leiden University and were a member of Minerva, a conservative student society. Still, I wouldn’t consider Leiden a particularly prestigious university—none of the Dutch universities are, because they are all relatively accessible and publicly funded. Instead, the well-connected manage to create their own little groups inside of student life. Like the aforementioned Minerva, which like other student societies (that exist in Delft as well), has students make small clusters (jaarclub, dispuut), with all kinds of barriers to entry. I presume the richest kids cluster together. People then rely on these connections throughout their career. To me it sounds like you met a group of rich people who were friends in Delft University (and I presume already rich) and relied on this network afterwards: this is a pattern that reproduces itself at other Universities. And inversely, attending Delft University is by no means a guarantee that you can profit from this mechanism. It’s interesting what you say of not seeing class differences before, I think it’s quite common in The Netherlands. The image the Dutch have of their society is one with very little class differences. This might be a comforting idea in day to day live (as you mention) but it also makes it hard to do something about the unfair situations that persist.

mettamage 5y ago
Interesting thoughts, I’ll think about this. I don’t have a well thought out response to it at the moment.

skrebbel 5y ago

Fwiw I went to Eindhoven and I never ever got the idea someone got better opportunities because they went to Delft. Everyone I know considers them to be similar. And, for context, I know quite some rich/successful people.

mettamage 5y ago
Fair enough, the issue with these type of things is that there’s not enough data because it’s quite a sensitive topic. Another issue is that we might be talking about different things without realizing it. It’s my experience that it happens a lit with this topic.