5 ms·

Steam Deck too “open” for Fortnite: Linux OS prohibits kernel-level anti-cheat

28 points by em3rgent0rdr 5y ago

2Gkashmiri 5y ago
Bullshit. Just allow Linux/steam users into a single bunch and disallow cross platform play until they are more "confident" about this. Why can apex now work on steam but fortnite is too open. Pathetic
- phendrenad2 5y ago
  A lot of people are saying "just put Linux users in their own matchmaking", but when you look at how many Linux users there are that want to play Fortnite, that's basically saying "never finding a match ever".
  - antifa 5y ago
    I'm not installing windows just to play that game.
  - 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
    well that is a classic chicken and egg problem. isnt it? if i see no matches, i would be inclined to ask my friends to join me on the linux match and if they join, well there you go.
Shadonototra 5y ago
Don't they have the game on android already? This is the most stupid statement i ever read, no wonder why their anti-cheat is considered as being useless lol You only need to sniff network and proxy packets to bypass all their junk, same story with Valorant, their kernel driver is the most useless thing i ever saw That's what happen when you don't want to invest into security, you let your CEO hold stupid statements
- phendrenad2 5y ago
  Good sniffing proxy packets without getting noticed when there's a kernel module inspecting the running processes on your computer. Almost like that's the point of the kernel driver.
  - Shadonototra 5y ago
    That doesn't matter AT ALL, i hope you don't work for EPIC or Riot security team, because that'd be very sad.. https://valorantradar.com/ https://valorantradar.com/ The only way to protect an online game is by hardening your SERVER SIDE logic Even cloud-gaming you can cheat easily by reading pixels, even easier and more performant with machine learning helpers Focus on your logic on the server, stop thinking you can put a lock on my PC, it's a lost fight And even then, there are HW tools to cheat, let's not talk about HDMI hacks
    - phendrenad2 5y ago
      Okay but that's just goalpost moving. I say you can't snoop packets and you move on to talking about HDMI hacks. You're missing the point in your haste to win the argument though: HDMI hacks present a barrier to entry, because now the player needs to buy specialized hardware. Also they won't work as well as packet sniffing (you can't as easily predict where a player is, since you only have pixel information and not skeleton information). Anti-cheat "works" by preventing the majority of players from cheating. The goal isn't to eliminate all cheating. If you can eliminate 99% of cheating using a rootkit, then that rootkit is definitely worth it.
      - Shadonototra 5y ago
        > Okay but that's just goalpost moving. I say you can't snoop packets and you move on to talking about HDMI hacks. You just don't read what I said/linked Connect to a VPN and let an external service handle all that shit for you, transparently, your client anti-cheat is useless > Anti-cheat "works" by preventing the majority of players from cheating. The goal isn't to eliminate all cheating. If you can eliminate 99% of cheating using a rootkit, then that rootkit is definitely worth it. I agree with you on that, except for the last part, you now affect your legit users, and give them false hope of never playing against cheaters
em3rgent0rdr 5y ago
With Linux, the user is in full control. But anti-cheat software necessarily requires the program to have more control than the user (i.e. the user is the "enemy" from the view of anti-cheat software). Hence the difficulty with getting games that require anti-cheat to run on Linux gaming consoles, such as the new Steam Deck.
faeranne 5y ago
So Linux gives users too much control of the things they own? Sounds like anti-cheat is inherently user hostile. Maybe we should be pushing developers to stop relying on owning things that aren't theirs to own? Then again, we're talking Epic here.

28 points by em3rgent0rdr 5y ago

Bullshit. Just allow Linux/steam users into a single bunch and disallow cross platform play until they are more "confident" about this. Why can apex now work on steam but fortnite is too open. Pathetic

phendrenad2 5y ago
A lot of people are saying "just put Linux users in their own matchmaking", but when you look at how many Linux users there are that want to play Fortnite, that's basically saying "never finding a match ever".
- antifa 5y ago
  I'm not installing windows just to play that game.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  well that is a classic chicken and egg problem. isnt it? if i see no matches, i would be inclined to ask my friends to join me on the linux match and if they join, well there you go.

Shadonototra 5y ago

Don't they have the game on android already? This is the most stupid statement i ever read, no wonder why their anti-cheat is considered as being useless lol You only need to sniff network and proxy packets to bypass all their junk, same story with Valorant, their kernel driver is the most useless thing i ever saw That's what happen when you don't want to invest into security, you let your CEO hold stupid statements

phendrenad2 5y ago
Good sniffing proxy packets without getting noticed when there's a kernel module inspecting the running processes on your computer. Almost like that's the point of the kernel driver.
- Shadonototra 5y ago
  That doesn't matter AT ALL, i hope you don't work for EPIC or Riot security team, because that'd be very sad.. https://valorantradar.com/ https://valorantradar.com/ The only way to protect an online game is by hardening your SERVER SIDE logic Even cloud-gaming you can cheat easily by reading pixels, even easier and more performant with machine learning helpers Focus on your logic on the server, stop thinking you can put a lock on my PC, it's a lost fight And even then, there are HW tools to cheat, let's not talk about HDMI hacks
  - phendrenad2 5y ago
    Okay but that's just goalpost moving. I say you can't snoop packets and you move on to talking about HDMI hacks. You're missing the point in your haste to win the argument though: HDMI hacks present a barrier to entry, because now the player needs to buy specialized hardware. Also they won't work as well as packet sniffing (you can't as easily predict where a player is, since you only have pixel information and not skeleton information). Anti-cheat "works" by preventing the majority of players from cheating. The goal isn't to eliminate all cheating. If you can eliminate 99% of cheating using a rootkit, then that rootkit is definitely worth it.
    - Shadonototra 5y ago
      > Okay but that's just goalpost moving. I say you can't snoop packets and you move on to talking about HDMI hacks. You just don't read what I said/linked Connect to a VPN and let an external service handle all that shit for you, transparently, your client anti-cheat is useless > Anti-cheat "works" by preventing the majority of players from cheating. The goal isn't to eliminate all cheating. If you can eliminate 99% of cheating using a rootkit, then that rootkit is definitely worth it. I agree with you on that, except for the last part, you now affect your legit users, and give them false hope of never playing against cheaters

em3rgent0rdr 5y ago

With Linux, the user is in full control. But anti-cheat software necessarily requires the program to have more control than the user (i.e. the user is the "enemy" from the view of anti-cheat software). Hence the difficulty with getting games that require anti-cheat to run on Linux gaming consoles, such as the new Steam Deck.

faeranne 5y ago

So Linux gives users too much control of the things they own? Sounds like anti-cheat is inherently user hostile. Maybe we should be pushing developers to stop relying on owning things that aren't theirs to own? Then again, we're talking Epic here.