5 ms·

Can confirm, Google was really stingy with their RSUs compared to Apple, but the perks really aren't that good with the exception of the food, which, when speak

Can confirm, Google was really stingy with their RSUs compared to Apple, but the perks really aren't that good with the exception of the food, which, when speaking to current Googlers, they say the food quality has fallen precipitously. Google at the time I worked there seemed to lean heavily on its reputation to reduce total comp.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
At least according to levels.fyi, Google is paying people at equivalent titles quite a bit more than Apple is. For example a senior engineer at Google is listed as having an average total comp of $380k, whereas at Apple it's only $310k. Now it's entirely possible that there is title inflation at Apple, so that a "senior" engineer at Apple is less senior than a senior engineer at Google. Or perhaps the samples are skewed differently per company. But when I lived in the Valley, the word on the street was that Apple paid less well than Google as a general rule. So the observed data on levels.fyi does match with whatever I heard in real life.
- thund 5y ago
  we need small companies to publish their compensation data on sites like levels.fyi, so people stop dreaming about big corps expecting huge salaries and rewards. There are many companies out there, with freedom to experiment fast, learn new tech, have a great work-life balance, without the huge tech debt of these corps, and they deserve a chance to have "rockstars" "ninjas" and so forth in their ranks
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
    I don't know if that will have the effect you desire. It's not a secret that there are a lot of companies that pay less money than big tech. That doesn't stop people hungering for those big tech jobs. Having specific salary numbers doesn't seem likely to change the situation.
    - pempem 5y ago
      Must disagree. As someone working in an MBB, the total comp of a potential exit is 100% a daily topic of conversation. IMO initially it's possible that folks will not be deterred but that is truly a matter of time and space for the knowledge to be available, make its way through and then impact people's behavior.
      - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
        It sounds like you're disagreeing with something I didn't say. The person I replied to said that if small and medium businesses published compensation information, it would cause job seekers to prefer FAANG companies less. I said that was not true -- FAANG companies will still be very attractive to job seekers even if other businesses publish their salary info. Job seekers already know that smaller companies cannot match FAANG pay, and the exact amount of the deficit is not very important.
  - renewiltord 5y ago
    At least for the subset of small that are startups, small companies vs big companies isn’t a comp discussion. You will win on comp going to the smaller guys. It’s whether you want to burn for the moon or you want to live a comfortable upper middle class life. FAANG is 70% retirees, 30% dipole candle burners. And the 30% provide the value, while the 70% are along for the ride.
    - Jenk 5y ago
      > FAANG is 70% retirees, 30% dipole candle burners. And the 30% provide the value, while the 70% are along for the ride. See in 2005 when Google was gaining traction and notoriety, it was because they had the reputation of not suffering driftwood. I was working for a giant transnational (full-on archaic org like that in "Office Space") at the time and found it really hard to fathom a company without apathy and drifters. I (foolishly) thought it ironic and dangerous that a company so determined not to suffers fools had free food, coffee, video games, table tennis, etc in the office. My office had an old crappy second-hand foosball table that was removed because it was "too much of a distraction" despite most people not using it from fear of a reprimand. Fast foward nearly 20 years and I guess "corporate entropy" gets everyone, eventually.
      - jmeister 5y ago
        Scott Locklin memorably declared Google to be in its "Fat Elvis" stage as early as 2011: https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/google-as-fat-elvis/ https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/google-as-fat-...
    - yodsanklai 5y ago
      I work in a FAANG and I can tell you than nobody in my team is slacking. Quite the opposite. Everybody is smart and working hard, there's no way you can cruise. I think all new members work even on weekends. A colleague of mine got fired because he didn't meet expectations for his level. He would have been totally fine in other companies. Turnover is high despite the high compensation. I'm sure it depends on the company/team, but 70% of retirees, I think it's a myth.
mattnewton 5y ago
As someone who left Apple for Google, I can say that Apple was even more stingy for all but the most senior levels, where they were competitive. Their TC could come close to matching Google because the stock appreciation was greater with AAPL than GOOG, but the offer letters had lower salary and usually no performance based cash bonuses when I was there.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  It’s funny to read all of these contradictory comments about which company pays better (or is more “stingy”) than others. This comment and the parent comment are saying the exact opposite of each other, but I fully believe each person’s experience. So what explains it? I would guess both commenters got higher offers at the other company because they did so as part of the job search process instead of via the within-company promotion process.
  - guiambros 5y ago
    > I would guess both commenters got higher offers at the other company because they did so as part of the job search process instead of via the within-company promotion process. Either this, or they may be looking at the value of RSUs at vesting (vs. at grant date) to calculate their (perceived) total compensation. In the latter case they may see wild swings depending on how much the stock went up / down since the grant, and have the perception that they are "underpaid" vs. a friend in other company.
ericd 5y ago
Apple’s cafe charges for food, and gives its interns very outdated machines. They’re much stingier than Google, or at least they were.
- gonehome 5y ago
  The food is heavily subsidized though and really good iirc. Google's food is good too, but people bitch about it. Arguably they bitch about it partly because it's free which commoditizes its value to zero so they don't value it. At least that's why I suspect Apple charges a subsidized rate. I saw the same thing where I used to work which also had incredible food. When something is free entitled employees whine about it.
- saagarjha 5y ago
  When I was an intern I got a new, latest model (for the time) MacBook Pro. At one point I also got a maxed-out trashcan Mac Pro too that they just had hanging around, which made WebKit builds far more pleasant.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    Interns often get extra perks. Regular employees didn’t get the privilege of attending executive speaker series.
  - ericd 5y ago
    Maybe I was on the wrong team :-) This was also before the trashcan debuted (Jobs was still CEO), so maybe things changed with time, new grads were still getting <$100k offers from eg Google at the time.
DataJunkie 5y ago
Current Googler. Everything you say is correct.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

At least according to levels.fyi, Google is paying people at equivalent titles quite a bit more than Apple is. For example a senior engineer at Google is listed as having an average total comp of $380k, whereas at Apple it's only $310k. Now it's entirely possible that there is title inflation at Apple, so that a "senior" engineer at Apple is less senior than a senior engineer at Google. Or perhaps the samples are skewed differently per company. But when I lived in the Valley, the word on the street was that Apple paid less well than Google as a general rule. So the observed data on levels.fyi does match with whatever I heard in real life.

thund 5y ago
we need small companies to publish their compensation data on sites like levels.fyi, so people stop dreaming about big corps expecting huge salaries and rewards. There are many companies out there, with freedom to experiment fast, learn new tech, have a great work-life balance, without the huge tech debt of these corps, and they deserve a chance to have "rockstars" "ninjas" and so forth in their ranks
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  I don't know if that will have the effect you desire. It's not a secret that there are a lot of companies that pay less money than big tech. That doesn't stop people hungering for those big tech jobs. Having specific salary numbers doesn't seem likely to change the situation.
  - pempem 5y ago
    Must disagree. As someone working in an MBB, the total comp of a potential exit is 100% a daily topic of conversation. IMO initially it's possible that folks will not be deterred but that is truly a matter of time and space for the knowledge to be available, make its way through and then impact people's behavior.
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
      It sounds like you're disagreeing with something I didn't say. The person I replied to said that if small and medium businesses published compensation information, it would cause job seekers to prefer FAANG companies less. I said that was not true -- FAANG companies will still be very attractive to job seekers even if other businesses publish their salary info. Job seekers already know that smaller companies cannot match FAANG pay, and the exact amount of the deficit is not very important.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  At least for the subset of small that are startups, small companies vs big companies isn’t a comp discussion. You will win on comp going to the smaller guys. It’s whether you want to burn for the moon or you want to live a comfortable upper middle class life. FAANG is 70% retirees, 30% dipole candle burners. And the 30% provide the value, while the 70% are along for the ride.
  - Jenk 5y ago
    > FAANG is 70% retirees, 30% dipole candle burners. And the 30% provide the value, while the 70% are along for the ride. See in 2005 when Google was gaining traction and notoriety, it was because they had the reputation of not suffering driftwood. I was working for a giant transnational (full-on archaic org like that in "Office Space") at the time and found it really hard to fathom a company without apathy and drifters. I (foolishly) thought it ironic and dangerous that a company so determined not to suffers fools had free food, coffee, video games, table tennis, etc in the office. My office had an old crappy second-hand foosball table that was removed because it was "too much of a distraction" despite most people not using it from fear of a reprimand. Fast foward nearly 20 years and I guess "corporate entropy" gets everyone, eventually.
    - jmeister 5y ago
      Scott Locklin memorably declared Google to be in its "Fat Elvis" stage as early as 2011: https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/google-as-fat-elvis/ https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/google-as-fat-...
  - yodsanklai 5y ago
    I work in a FAANG and I can tell you than nobody in my team is slacking. Quite the opposite. Everybody is smart and working hard, there's no way you can cruise. I think all new members work even on weekends. A colleague of mine got fired because he didn't meet expectations for his level. He would have been totally fine in other companies. Turnover is high despite the high compensation. I'm sure it depends on the company/team, but 70% of retirees, I think it's a myth.

mattnewton 5y ago

As someone who left Apple for Google, I can say that Apple was even more stingy for all but the most senior levels, where they were competitive. Their TC could come close to matching Google because the stock appreciation was greater with AAPL than GOOG, but the offer letters had lower salary and usually no performance based cash bonuses when I was there.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
It’s funny to read all of these contradictory comments about which company pays better (or is more “stingy”) than others. This comment and the parent comment are saying the exact opposite of each other, but I fully believe each person’s experience. So what explains it? I would guess both commenters got higher offers at the other company because they did so as part of the job search process instead of via the within-company promotion process.
- guiambros 5y ago
  > I would guess both commenters got higher offers at the other company because they did so as part of the job search process instead of via the within-company promotion process. Either this, or they may be looking at the value of RSUs at vesting (vs. at grant date) to calculate their (perceived) total compensation. In the latter case they may see wild swings depending on how much the stock went up / down since the grant, and have the perception that they are "underpaid" vs. a friend in other company.

ericd 5y ago

Apple’s cafe charges for food, and gives its interns very outdated machines. They’re much stingier than Google, or at least they were.

gonehome 5y ago
The food is heavily subsidized though and really good iirc. Google's food is good too, but people bitch about it. Arguably they bitch about it partly because it's free which commoditizes its value to zero so they don't value it. At least that's why I suspect Apple charges a subsidized rate. I saw the same thing where I used to work which also had incredible food. When something is free entitled employees whine about it.
saagarjha 5y ago
When I was an intern I got a new, latest model (for the time) MacBook Pro. At one point I also got a maxed-out trashcan Mac Pro too that they just had hanging around, which made WebKit builds far more pleasant.
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  Interns often get extra perks. Regular employees didn’t get the privilege of attending executive speaker series.
- ericd 5y ago
  Maybe I was on the wrong team :-) This was also before the trashcan debuted (Jobs was still CEO), so maybe things changed with time, new grads were still getting <$100k offers from eg Google at the time.

DataJunkie 5y ago

Current Googler. Everything you say is correct.