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I despise this western-centric view- were only the people in the west are real people, that can make decisions for themselves, and the rest is just pawns for pl

I despise this western-centric view- were only the people in the west are real people, that can make decisions for themselves, and the rest is just pawns for playing a funny great board game. The idea that even a new-born nation, could walk out of the board game and do its own thing is so outrageous to the players, it is not even considered. Well, ukraine just tried that. Its a sovereign nation, and it wanted nothing to do with its imperialistic neighbourhood. And all the zhars horse and all the zhars man, could not hold all its conquered ethnicities in again and again, cause technology now favors david instead of goliath. So ukraine might not walk this time, but others will, until this ball of muddy-power dissolves one last and final time. Russia, this unreformable assembly of thiefdoms, is stumbling like a feverish plague victime towards the end of its story and it will not be pretty. To blame this corrosion on the west, is pompous victim blaming. Russia is also falling apart near the chinese border, were large parts of the economy are now owned by chinese state owned companies. Its just a failed state and to the man with glass-bones-disease even a friendly handshake is a attack.

inglor_cz 5y ago
As Václav Havel used to say, the problem with Russia is that it does not know where exactly it ends.
- warner_of_doom 5y ago
  There's a geostrategic logic behind where Russia wants their borders positioned. Your statement applies more to other countries in Europe, IMO.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > There's a geostrategic logic behind where Russia wants their borders positioned. Yes, imperialism usually has a geostrategic logic. What it doesn't have is respect for the right of self-determination. > Your statement applies more to other countries in Europe Except you’ve literally just admitted that it is exactly the driving force for Russia.
    - warner_of_doom 5y ago
      > What it doesn't have is respect for the right of self-determination. Did the US have any respect for self-determination in the 2014 putsch it backed in Ukraine?
      - tim333 5y ago
        Well yeah, it backed the people over Russia in Euromaidan. That was kind of the point of the thing.
        warner_of_doom 5y ago
        LOL. OMG. Please look more closely into it. It was undemocratic by a long shot. https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia?s=r https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia...
jazzyjackson 5y ago
Thanks for this poetic comment
offbeatrock 5y ago
actually Mearsheimer's view is the opposite of western centric. It says that there are other big players in the world other than the US that will behave following the exact same set of game theory laws.
chakhs 5y ago
The problem is you're arguing from an idealistic point of view. But in the real world might makes right. Doesn't matter what Ukraine wants if it doesn't have nukes to back it up.
- tim333 5y ago
  Does that go for the other 90% of countries that don't have nukes? Maybe Russia should take Canada as it's fairly close by and non nuclear?
  - chakhs 5y ago
    USA won't let Russia come near the Americas so that won't happen. France didn't care that Libya was a "sovereign" nation, neither did USA care about Iraq's sovereignty. Unfortunately that's how the world works, rules are for the weak nations only. Superpowers don't really care.
tim333 5y ago
It's not really western centric so much as military power centric - that only the military powers count and less armed people in the middle are pawns. For example in the 1904 skirmish between Russia and Japan those two powers were arguing over who should control Korea and nearby areas with weak militaries. It's become a bit passe with the internet and human rights movements and the like - you can't just go militarily occupy the neighbours these days without pissing off a lot of people as Russia is finding just now. The 1904 thing was quite interesting in the current context. Emperor of Russia Nicholas II thought it would be easy to take out the Japanese navy but they ended up with most of the Russian navy sunk and subsequently the Russian royals got overthrown and replaced by the communists which has led up to what we have now. It's possible that history will play out in a similar way - Putin thought taking Ukraine would be easy but loses that and then loses power at home and ends up replaced. Perhaps by a normal democracy, looking on the optimistic side.
- warner_of_doom 5y ago
  > It's possible that history will play out in a similar way - Putin thought taking Ukraine would be easy but loses that and then loses power at home and ends up replaced. Perhaps by a normal democracy, looking on the optimistic side. This usually doesn't work. We've tried this before, believe it or not.
nsonha 5y ago
> Ukraine just tried that no they did not, what they did is nothing like what Sweden, Finland, or Singapore did. Joining the EU, sure, but joining NATO and claim to be trying to "walk out of the game"?

inglor_cz 5y ago

As Václav Havel used to say, the problem with Russia is that it does not know where exactly it ends.

warner_of_doom 5y ago
There's a geostrategic logic behind where Russia wants their borders positioned. Your statement applies more to other countries in Europe, IMO.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > There's a geostrategic logic behind where Russia wants their borders positioned. Yes, imperialism usually has a geostrategic logic. What it doesn't have is respect for the right of self-determination. > Your statement applies more to other countries in Europe Except you’ve literally just admitted that it is exactly the driving force for Russia.
  - warner_of_doom 5y ago
    > What it doesn't have is respect for the right of self-determination. Did the US have any respect for self-determination in the 2014 putsch it backed in Ukraine?
    - tim333 5y ago
      Well yeah, it backed the people over Russia in Euromaidan. That was kind of the point of the thing.
      - warner_of_doom 5y ago
        LOL. OMG. Please look more closely into it. It was undemocratic by a long shot. https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia?s=r https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia...

jazzyjackson 5y ago

Thanks for this poetic comment

offbeatrock 5y ago

actually Mearsheimer's view is the opposite of western centric. It says that there are other big players in the world other than the US that will behave following the exact same set of game theory laws.

chakhs 5y ago

The problem is you're arguing from an idealistic point of view. But in the real world might makes right. Doesn't matter what Ukraine wants if it doesn't have nukes to back it up.

tim333 5y ago
Does that go for the other 90% of countries that don't have nukes? Maybe Russia should take Canada as it's fairly close by and non nuclear?
- chakhs 5y ago
  USA won't let Russia come near the Americas so that won't happen. France didn't care that Libya was a "sovereign" nation, neither did USA care about Iraq's sovereignty. Unfortunately that's how the world works, rules are for the weak nations only. Superpowers don't really care.

tim333 5y ago

It's not really western centric so much as military power centric - that only the military powers count and less armed people in the middle are pawns. For example in the 1904 skirmish between Russia and Japan those two powers were arguing over who should control Korea and nearby areas with weak militaries. It's become a bit passe with the internet and human rights movements and the like - you can't just go militarily occupy the neighbours these days without pissing off a lot of people as Russia is finding just now. The 1904 thing was quite interesting in the current context. Emperor of Russia Nicholas II thought it would be easy to take out the Japanese navy but they ended up with most of the Russian navy sunk and subsequently the Russian royals got overthrown and replaced by the communists which has led up to what we have now. It's possible that history will play out in a similar way - Putin thought taking Ukraine would be easy but loses that and then loses power at home and ends up replaced. Perhaps by a normal democracy, looking on the optimistic side.

warner_of_doom 5y ago
> It's possible that history will play out in a similar way - Putin thought taking Ukraine would be easy but loses that and then loses power at home and ends up replaced. Perhaps by a normal democracy, looking on the optimistic side. This usually doesn't work. We've tried this before, believe it or not.

nsonha 5y ago

> Ukraine just tried that no they did not, what they did is nothing like what Sweden, Finland, or Singapore did. Joining the EU, sure, but joining NATO and claim to be trying to "walk out of the game"?